How to react re children telling you about trans friends

[plainwhitecheese]

Dd14 tells me she's going out tomorrow, I ask who, she tells me (I've changed names) Lucy, Beth, Sarah and Josh

I know of the girls but ask who is josh

She says oh it's my mate who you know as Laura, he's trans and goes by Josh

So. I feel bad because I feel like 20 years ago people were dismissive of people being gay etc and I don't want to be ignorant and transphobic. But, much against how I wish I felt, I find it hard to stop my eyes rolling a bit.

I don't want to be ignorant, and bigoted. It almost feels to me like the pure amount of people proclaiming to be trans almost makes a mockery out of those with genuine body dismorphia. Or do I just need to get a grip and realise it's not up to me to feel a certain way about how people identify

Please point out to your dd that friend is most likely troubled and unhappy and their problems are unlikely to be solved by pretending to be something they are not, because that’s never a good way to solve problems. I’m speaking as the mother of a ‘Josh’. It’s a nightmare.

Yeah sure

I would love to see the evidence to support that Aqu. Have you got any?

Dome threads this week are bringing in lots of studies that I have yet to read, so please link them up and I will put them in the pile?

'How to react to your DC meeting friends'
Say have fun, enjoy your day. I'm not overly sure what's difficult about it?
Does it really matter whether the friends are Bi, Gay, Trans, or anything? No no it doesn't. 🤦‍♀️

Wait till they all go to uni and they decide they are non-binary and the names they pick then. I can’t even tell you as they are so outing. The desperation to be unique which being totally normal and average like everyone else.

Its like goths 30/40 years ago wanting to be called Slug and stuff. A rare few make a lifelong choice to stick with being a goth, most grow out of it. This is how this should be treated. A teenage phase.

Its like goths 30/40 years ago wanting to be called Slug and stuff. A rare few make a lifelong choice to stick with being a goth, most grow out of it. This is how this should be treated. A teenage phase.

This. I am at a complete loss as to why so many teachers and other professionals with decades of experience in working with teens and young adults are unable to recognise this for what it is. And surely this is hugely to the detriment of the (very small, I'm guessing) minority of children who are experiencing serious dysphoria and who need specialist support rather than lunchtime clubs and awareness weeks and badges and all the other performative nonsense which is being peddled in the race-to-be-the-most-inclusive-school-ever.

'pornography today is no more prevalent than it has been in the past'

But with respect that's an utterly and obviously preposterous argument, Discovereads.

The 2 female friends who now identify as boys do so because they do not feel 'right' being female, it has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Trans people can be lgb or straight, just like everyone else.
Of course not every child or teen who says they are trans will carry it through to surgical transition, that is why they're not allowed surgery before they are 18. Once they reach 18 they are transferred to an adult gender clinic and join the waiting list, and even then they have a long wait before they can have surgery. They have years to change their minds and they do receive help to make sure it's right for them. The 'grooming' accusation of many GC people is a myth.

No it's not. And telling a teen that it's a mental illness is enough to make them shut it all in, hide it, which in turn makes the issue much worse and can end up with them having a real mental illness because they're prevented from living as their true selves. They need parents to listen to them, not judge them.
From the NHS:
"Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria."

Agreed...DH and I just attended DD school fair (ages 10-14) and there was a school ally group encouraging families and kids to make pronoun buttons and pin the pink/blue/white flags. DH whispered, "There's the grooming booth."

Gender dysphoria is listed as a psychiatric condition in the DSM-V as well as all standard psychiatric literature. “Dysphoria” is a medical term for a mental health condition, meaning distress; it isn’t just a random word.

You can’t really have it both ways - if it’s “dysphoria” it’s a mental illness justifying treatment; if it’s not, then why should anyone have any treatment for it at all?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysphoria

Check again.

The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.”
The World Health Organisation has also removed gender dysphoria from the mental illness classification:
Gender incongruence has thus broadly been moved out of the “Mental and behavioural disorders” chapter and into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” chapter. This reflects evidence that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill health
As for "You can’t really have it both ways" the treatment isn't for mental health, hormones and surgery is physical treatment.

You said it:
"so many teachers and other professionals with decades of experience in working with teens and young adults"
Maybe they know better than you.

@Starlee — gender nonconformity is not the same as gender dysphoria, by a long way.

The entire meaning of the word “dysphoria” is distress. Gender distress. Used to be called “gender identity disorder”; was renamed gender dysphoria to sound a bit nicer.

Gender nonconformity just means not adhering to gendered roles or stereotypes. As most of us don’t. A woman with a buzz cut or a man with long hair is gender nonconformity. As is a woman who’s an engineer, a breadwinner, wears men’s boots, drinks pints; or a man who wears nail varnish, is a stay at home husband, works as a nurse, likes to watch Julia Roberts films. Gender nonconformity is not an illness. Gender dysphoria — distress — is.

@Starlee the distinction is also outlined by this paragraph from the link you yourself added in your post:

“With the publication of DSM–5 in 2013, “gender identity disorder” was eliminated and replaced with “gender dysphoria.” This change further focused the diagnosis on the gender identity-related distress that some transgender people experience (and for which they may seek psychiatric, medical, and surgical treatments) rather than on transgender individuals or identities themselves.”

So: the gender dysphoria is the diagnostic name for the condition — gender identity related distress; this is not the same as gender identity or “gender incongruence” in itself.

(I do advise actually reading through the content of any links you post! Though that psychiatry.org description you posted this from isn’t actually very good, by the way — it’s not particularly accurate about Hirschfield and Cauldwell for one thing, and doesn’t outline a lot of important earlier twentieth century history of the idea of transsexualism. Not a great resource tbh, and it also misuses some psychoanalytic terminology later on the page in ways that mislead. I recommend taking a look directly at the DSM-V instead.)

Here’s a list of some other psychiatric conditions that are classed as forms of or include forms of dysphoria:

“Major depressive disorder (unipolar) and dysthymia
Bipolar disorder and cyclothymia
Borderline personality disorder
Premenstrual syndrome
Premenstrual dysphoric disorder
Dysphoric milk ejection reflex
Stress
Adjustment disorder with depressed mood
Anxiety disorders such as post-traumatic stress disorder
Dysphoric rumination
Dissociative disorders such as dissociative identity disorder, dissociative amnesia and depersonalization disorder.
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, defined as emotional deregulation or unbearable RSD "rejection sensitivity dysphoria"
Mixed anxiety-depressive disorder
Gender dysphoria
Personality disorders such as borderline personality disorder, dependent personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder
Substance withdrawal
Body dysmorphic disorder
Akathisia
Hypoglycemia
Schizophrenia
Sexual dysfunction
Body integrity dysphoria
Insomnia
Chronic pain”

Out of all of these, why has only gender dysphoria now become an identity? I’m genuinely interested in what you think, here. Why gender dysphoria out of these, and none of the others? What’s different about gender dysphoria? And why at this particular point in time?

@nightwakingmoon "The entire meaning of the word “dysphoria” is distress. Gender distress. Used to be called “gender identity disorder”; was renamed gender dysphoria to sound a bit nicer."

Yes, and was moved out of “Mental and behavioural disorders” into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” category, as I said above.
Stop nit-picking over words, this is not about WORDS it's about PEOPLE, stop dehumanising them.

You realise that being homosexual was also classed as a mental illness at one time, that was also rightly changed, although some dinosaurs no doubt still call them mentally ill 🙄

If we should stop nit-picking over words, Starlee, why is so much of this ideology based around controlling other people’s words? Pronouns, deadnames, terminology, “uterus-havers”, people who menstruate, birthing people?

Why are words so important for some people that they feel “literal violence” or “harm” is being done to them if they hear words they don’t like, which apparently cause great distress and exacerbate “dysphoria” — if words don’t matter and it’s not a mental health condition?

It's so prevalent atm. Our DC know our views on sex and gender. When they mention another friend has changed their name. I just say that's nice. And reiterate that people can wear what they like and call themselves whatever they like too.

I keep a watchful eye on it because our DC are quite impressionable and there was a point where they felt pressured to choose a letter from the LGBTQ+ - everyone in their friendship group had one, and they all changed them regularly. It's a particularly vulnerable group that struggle with depression, self harm and suicide ideation. Our DC have other less complicated friendships outside school that have somehow sidestepped a lot of the teen angst so far.

Stop nit-picking over words, this is not about WORDS it's about PEOPLE

Oh the irony.

Honestly, I just embrace it. I really do. For all my concerns about women's rights and boundaries being eroded, I think it's only fair to allow teens to be who they say they are and acknowledge it. May be a phase, may not be, but it never harms to respect other people and it keeps the dialogue open. If you refuse to accept who they truly believe they are, they will pigeonhole you as phobic and discussions can never happen. I know loads of teens who go by new names now.

You should accept this brave young man for who he is. Him being trans is not going to change your life and how on earth can you know who does or does not have "genuine body dysmorphia"?

Live and let live.

"What was important was the liberty of us all to live as we wished to live, to love however we wanted to love, and to know ourselves, however peculiar, disconcerting or unclassifiable, at one with the gods and angels.”
― Jan Morris

Have they been judgemental or not just fully agreed exactly with what she wants them too? It's a bit sad that you're not allowed any form of differing opinion to her or she'll cut you off. I imagine if the reverse happened she'd be devastated?

I said YOU should stop nit-picking. Of course words are important but you're just trying to make out gender dysphoria is a mental illness when it's not, as evidenced by the independent links I've provided.

And it's not only people with a mental illness who feel harmed by words they don't like, seems according to you everyone is mentally ill.
Another helpful link for you, I think you're getting these 2 things confused, one's a mental disorder, the other isn't.
The Difference Between Gender dysphoria and Body Dysmorphia.

Except the links you’ve provided don’t actually say what you claim - that one literally says they are both psychological conditions 😂 And it’s literally just some random American doctor’s website. It even uses the incorrect term “psychological” when it means “psychiatric” (these are very different terms). I have no idea why you’re dropping in random quite rubbish links.

I’n not sure how old you are — you come across as very young and not having learned very much about this debate so far — but I really do recommend some serious reading in proper resources as a good education in this topic, rather than just picking at unreliable internet resources. Take a look at the DSM itself as a starting point, and look up some key terms to begin with in the OED (or any other decent dictionary). A short history of psychiatry would be v helpful - there’s an interesting recent history of the DSM itself by Allan Horwitz; or I recommend either of Edward Shorter’s A History of Psychiatry, or Andrew Scull’s Desperate Remedies (or his Psychiatry and its Discontents) as useful starting points. You might also find this long essay from 2000 a fascinating read:

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/

That link has nothing to do with gender dysphoria, it sounds more like body dysmorphia to me, although it is actually body integrity identity disorder, amputee identity disorder or xenomelia, it is a mental disorder and no longer called apotemnophilia. And you accuse me of posting 'random rubbish links' 🙄
You've also ignored the part where my link states While Gender dysphoria itself is not a mental illness How many more links do you need saying that same thing before you'll finally accept that it is NO LONGER CLASSED AS A MENTAL ILLNESS!
I have no need to look at any of the things you suggest, I get my info first hand from my (adult) trans child and the medical research we have both done, along with medical advice. There is nothing like years of lived experience to teach you the truth of something, just reading about it doesn't even come close.