Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It's just so sad

122 replies

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 12:48

Can't say this in real life so am writing it here....a friend of mine's daughter started identitying as a boy a few years ago now. This morning he posted mastectomy photos. (And yes, I am saying he now). It just makes me feel so sad that he didn't feel it was possible to transition without surgery but I also hope that he won't regret it iyswim? I don't really understand how this surgery can have become so acceptable in such a short space of time. It's brutal.😥

OP posts:
Lavenderlast · 22/05/2022 13:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 13:10

21 - so not a minor but still so young!

OP posts:
missmelons88 · 22/05/2022 13:16

I know of someone going through the same. Double mastectomy is the answer to unlocking the rest of 'life' I.e job, friendships etc. Until it happens for this person life is on hold completely 🙄 let's hope it is as good as they think it will be.

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 13:19

Yes, I hope it all works out.

OP posts:
purplewolfie · 22/05/2022 13:26

I'm ok with people changing their body. I've known people who were seriously uncomfortable with their sexed body and these procedures have changed their life for the better. Although I know that some will regret it inevitably.
It makes more sense to me then talk of girldicks and boyboobs.
Transsexual makes more sense to me then gender dysmorphia/transgender.
A friend was in their early 20s when they got a masectomy and they've never regretted it. It was the right thing for them - and followed by bottom surgery a few years later. I hope it turns out positive for your friend's daughter too.

missmelons88 · 22/05/2022 13:36

@purplewolfie the person that I know of hasn't had their wishes questioned by any professional, that we know of. They are not currently having any psychological support or therapy to deal with the underlying issues.

There are SO many risks to having these surgeries especially the 'bottom' surgery. I mean what are these people actually left with? Other MN'ers on this board will be much better informed to answer this than I. Surely someone who refuses to consider themselves 'complete' and places so much value on how they are perceived by other people to the point that they refuse to do anything until there is a surgical intervention needs real help, not a willing surgeon.

nightwakingmoon · 22/05/2022 13:51

Such a brutal surgery - when you think of how women who have to have it done for serious medical reasons, to be parading it as a great thing is borderline offensive.

I am firmly convinced that the widespread pervasiveness of contemporary porn is a big contributor to this. None of it suggests that women might find their breasts joyful, and a source of great sexual pleasure, instead of just (often artificially inflated) flesh lumps, to be grabbed by men while being banged. Just look at the porn which depicts women having fake “squirting” orgasms over things that we all know rarely provide actual enjoyable sexual experiences for women.

As a young woman I was dismayed by my DD breasts, especially when the fashion was all for being anorexically thin, no bra, spaghetti strap tops, and so on. I even considered breast reduction; but what stopped me (much more than the thought of future breastfeeding);was the fact that my breasts were very sexually sensitive, and I could not bear to risk losing my own pleasure just for the sake of how I looked. (And ten years later fashions had changed anyway. and big breasts were suddenly all the rage.)

I am sure that for many of these girls there are complicated reasons here, around the denial of sexuality and sexual pleasure, or even simply being unaware that their bodies can and should be for their own feelings of pleasure, not for how they merely appear or “pass” to others.

Gender ideology is a movement that, despite its obsessions with how people “feel”, is actually all about looks, performances and appearances, and visually “passing”, to the detriment of how the body might feel or experience pleasure for itself - all shaped by a culturally deeply misogynist way of thinking of women’s bodies, which are still thought of as undeserving of sexual pleasure in themselves, so cutting off the sources of it is something to be ignored, or at worst, celebrated. 😞

KimikosNightmare · 22/05/2022 14:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Seriously? That's your best argument against this?

snekkes · 22/05/2022 14:02

Congrats to this young man. If he's had it done via the NHS route in England, it's likely he will have been on a waiting list for 3-4 years at least and will have had several sessions with the regional gender dysphoria service, who would establish whether (and what) surgery might be the right route for him before referring him on to a surgeon (who likely had another year or so waiting list). He's also got a decent chance of regaining some sensitivity over the next few years, and hopefully is really pleased with the outcome regardless. Good luck to him :)

snekkes · 22/05/2022 14:05

KimikosNightmare · 22/05/2022 14:00

Seriously? That's your best argument against this?

Right? I honestly find the sexual pleasure one a bit iffy too. I mean, yes, sensitivity is great, and all adult people are fully entitled to sexual pleasure if they consent to it and want to pursue it, but for many people, that's really not the be-all and end-all of having a body.

334bu · 22/05/2022 14:09

Right? I honestly find the sexual pleasure one a bit iffy too. I mean, yes, sensitivity is great, and all adult people are fully entitled to sexual pleasure if they consent to it and want to pursue it, but for many people, that's really not the be-all and end-all of having a body.

Wow!

Snugglepumpkin · 22/05/2022 14:21

This reply has been deleted

We've removed this post as we found the language used inflammatory.

ElenaSt · 22/05/2022 14:23

Not that long ago it would have been part of some evil dystopian horror film to have healthy body parts removed.

It's the mind that needs treatment not the body.

TheWeeDonkey · 22/05/2022 14:25

Why the boobs? It's always the boobs.

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 14:49

snekkes · 22/05/2022 14:05

Right? I honestly find the sexual pleasure one a bit iffy too. I mean, yes, sensitivity is great, and all adult people are fully entitled to sexual pleasure if they consent to it and want to pursue it, but for many people, that's really not the be-all and end-all of having a body.

Wow.

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 14:52

I'm sorry, OP. All these young people, so lost and lacking in good, sound, sensible support. Heartbreaking.

KimikosNightmare · 22/05/2022 14:56

snekkes · 22/05/2022 14:05

Right? I honestly find the sexual pleasure one a bit iffy too. I mean, yes, sensitivity is great, and all adult people are fully entitled to sexual pleasure if they consent to it and want to pursue it, but for many people, that's really not the be-all and end-all of having a body.

Well , even setting aside the fact my own experience of breastfeeding was the single most miserable, depressing and painful 3 months of my entire life I think sensitivity and pleasure might be a more convincing argument for a teenager.

As for "health benefits" - given that what has "health benefits" seems to change on a regular basis I'm not convinced anything beyond " don't smoke, eat some fruit and vegetables, get a bit of exercise and don't do illegal drugs" is useful. "Breastfeeding" would be pretty low down on the list.

snekkes · 22/05/2022 15:15

Many trans guys find sex much more satisfying post top surgery, as beforehand it may be too dysphoric and distressing to even have their chest visible, much less touched.

MoobsAreNotBoobs · 22/05/2022 15:28

What a terrible place we are in to congratulate people mutilating their body. She needed help, not a mastectomy. As you say, it’s brutal and sad.

Igmum · 22/05/2022 15:31

So, so sad. So sorry to hear this zero. I hope they don't regret this but I very much fear they will. Sending love

MagnoliaTaint · 22/05/2022 15:33

snekkes · 22/05/2022 15:15

Many trans guys find sex much more satisfying post top surgery, as beforehand it may be too dysphoric and distressing to even have their chest visible, much less touched.

the solution to being distressed about sex is not removing body parts.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/05/2022 15:49

nightwakingmoon said it far better than I can:
"Gender ideology is a movement that, despite its obsessions with how people “feel”, is actually all about looks, performances and appearances, and visually “passing”, to the detriment of how the body might feel or experience pleasure for itself - all shaped by a culturally deeply misogynist way of thinking of women’s bodies, which are still thought of as undeserving of sexual pleasure in themselves, so cutting off the sources of it is something to be ignored, or at worst, celebrated."

It's very difficult talking about the young in terms of their future sexual pleasure, let alone their fertility, but the idea that this is curtailed before they have the opportunity to explore and understand their bodies and sexual relationships (including the crap ones) is incredibly sad.

FrancescaContini · 22/05/2022 15:53

It’s absolutely fucking tragic. This young woman has been failed by those closest to her. Presumably nobody pointed her in the direction of Keira Bell’s story.

KittyLeMew · 22/05/2022 15:54

I hope they don’t regret it.

Many detransitioners speak of their sadness that they won’t be able to breastfeed, if they are still able to have children.

It’s not remotely ‘iffy’ to talk about the lack of sexual pleasure these young people may have in their lives as a result of transitioning. Sex is a natural, normal, wonderful part of life and loving relationships. Again another issue detransitioners speak about.

If you are happy to recklessly wave very young people, who may have comorbidities and may not have been given the opportunity to explore alternatives within a safe therapeutic space, through to having irreversible surgery that’s on you.

Personally I couldn’t live with myself.

SammyScrounge · 22/05/2022 16:11

TheWeeDonkey · 22/05/2022 14:25

Why the boobs? It's always the boobs.

Revenge on women for being women?