It's just so sad

[Zerogravity]

Can't say this in real life so am writing it here....a friend of mine's daughter started identitying as a boy a few years ago now. This morning he posted mastectomy photos. (And yes, I am saying he now). It just makes me feel so sad that he didn't feel it was possible to transition without surgery but I also hope that he won't regret it iyswim? I don't really understand how this surgery can have become so acceptable in such a short space of time. It's brutal.😥

To be honest I can't get sad about top surgery. I don't like my boobs, don't like them being touched during sex and despised (though persisted) breastfeeding.

However, I do feel it sad that people need to change their bodies in any way to feel accepted, by others or themselves.

Quite.

Wasn’t Van Gogh considered “mad” for attempting to cut off his own ear? If these young people were having fingers/arms/noses or whatever surgically removed, how would people around them react? I imagine their mental state would - very rightfully - be questioned.

But breasts/penises etc - it’s just “top” or “bottom” “surgery”. And it’s great, kids, cos, you know, you’ll have a better sex life…😡

Top surgery?! You mean a double mastectomy?! To call it anything else sounds like baby talk.

Bottom surgery? Falsely creating a hole that needs to be expanded daily so it doesn’t heal? Or a piece of skin taken from the thigh or arm moulded to simulate a penis and then sewn on?

These kids are victims of medical malpractice.

Thing is - you're not them, are you?
It might seem '' brutal'' but if you're not trans (I' m not anyway) you might not ever completely understand what it's like.
At the end of the day only you know yourself, we're all different and should have bodily autonomy.
wish teenage girls were better educated about the health benefits and physical joy of breastfeeding 😭
🙄 Physical joy?! Hah. Maybe for you but I absolutely fucking hated it, and didn't even do it the second time around.
Despite some midwife muttering '' Well, if you don't care about giving the best for your baby... " 😡
Seriously wish people would piss off telling people what they should or shouldn't be doing with their bodies.
I'm assuming that's what it's like for people who are trans too.

Of course you are going to suffer "dysphoria" if you are being encouraged to locate all your distress in your femaleness, and taught that discomfort with your changing or sexual body means you're a boy. Especially along with the idea of breast removal as the answer. It must be so horrendous when you are convinced that you'll be your "true self" and be happy once you remove the body part that you've decided is symbolic of all your unhappiness - and then you don't go through that magic door, which is likely.

I think no one should have elective breast removal until at least 25, but even then they should have it clearly explained to them first that you can be any kind of woman, and not fitting in with femininity, or feeling uncomfortable about your body (especially if sexually abused and harassed, which most women and girls have been), are normal and OK, and there's a different path out of them - accepting your body and yourself as a woman and rejecting stereotypes and the pressure to be a sex plaything for men.

So many detransitioners say this is what they wish they had realised. That not being feminine or "girly" does not mean they're not a woman, and that there are other ways to be a happy woman, and no one told them this.

@nightwakingmoon - completely agree with your post. The simple pleasure of a normal sex life (heterosexual or same sex) is being denied these young women. It seems all about men's pleasure, in porn, in teen Vogue with the guide to anal sex which 'forgot' to mention the clitoris, to promoting double mastectomy as the answer to mental health problems. It's sick.

Seriously wish people would piss off telling people what they should or shouldn't be doing with their bodies.
If you are a grown adult I'd agree but when children are being encouraged to cut off healthy body parts, don't you think we have a duty to protect them? When you hear what detransitioners have been through, so many were crying out for an adult to stop them.

How old is the child in the OP though as it doesn't say?
People on here say child for 18 years old.
Would be interesting to know age as don't think it was mentioned.
People say 18 is a child on here, when at that age you're legally an adult and even though you might not like everything they do, it's ultimately up to them.

Hope it wasn’t on the NHS!!

think no one should have elective breast removal until at least 25
You're a grown adult at 25! Sorry, we're going to have to disagree as no way should anyone be telling you what you can and can't do with your body at the age of 24 or 25.
Just no.

Of course you are going to suffer "dysphoria" if you are being encouraged to locate all your distress in your femaleness, and taught that discomfort with your changing or sexual body means you're a boy
Nowhere has the OP says that is the case though, so where are you getting that from?

The standards of care need to be the same for everyone. There is a terrible dereliction of care for young women who has gender identity issues.

Radical mastectomy should be a last resort, not a first. No one should be allowed to have one until they're 30.

No one should be allowed to have one until they're 30
So now it's 30 year old adults bodies you're wanting policing.
It's getting older.

How old is the child in the OP though as it doesn't say?
As I clarified upthread, 21, so no, not a child, just very young. And no, it wasn't on the NHS!

You said the person you mentioned in the OP was 21. That’s not a child. That’s an adult. The person is also not your child. You really need to keep your beak out. Adults make choices all the time that they may or may not regret regarding their bodies. The fact a few have regret doesnt create a “duty of care” to ban everyone else from their right to bodily autonomy.

Why are you sad about someone else's choices? He is happy with them

I'm guessing you're not a woman because you'd know how hard it is to get sterilised as a woman under the age of 30. Actually, it's pretty hard to get it done over the age of 30.

I don't see why breasts are any different. Radical surgery should only ever be done as a last resort. And it shouldn't be available on the nhs, in the same way amputation of healthy limbs isn't, cutting isn't or any other way that humans destroy their physical bodies in the pursuit of mental relief.

The whole “but they might regret choosing to do x with their body” justification to restrict a woman’s right to bodily autonomy is straight from the anti-abortionist playbook in the US. It’s just being applied to gender confirming surgery instead or termination of pregnancy. You can’t believe in this right only when it suits your own ideology/political views.

So these young women who have mastectomies - are they on the woman’s hospital wards along with women who have had life saving surgery to remove their breast/s?

Nope.

Also lymph node drainage is kind of cool

Did you read my OP? I specifically said I can't say this in real life. I call this person "he". I wish him the best and hope it works out. But no, I can't see photos of someone i have known since he was a child with fresh mastectomy scars and people congratulating him on sm without feeling sadness.

Ah yes, just seen now, 21.
You're an adult at that age though.
It doesnt matter what others think, whether people are saying it's sad, you're not them!
That foul midwife probably thought I should be forced to breastfeed, as I '' didn't know what was best for me. ''
Adults.
Not children.
You're not a child in your 20s, or when you're 30.
Unless you're on here of course where you're infantalised 😡

I am curious of certain synchronicity here:

This trend of transitioning out of being a woman, the increasing pornification of the female body, the increasing focus of the interior of the female body as a work place (in surrogacy and sex work), and then the trend of erasing the names for the female sex, all these are happening at the same time.

Something odd is happening to the female sex and the female body.

The whole “but they might regret choosing to do x with their body” justification to restrict a woman’s right to bodily autonomy is straight from the anti-abortionist playbook in the US.
Exactly!