Do pronouns feel alien to anyone else?

[janeseymour78]

By this, I mean I have friends who are 100% pro pronouns as a show of support and we've had our debates, and then there are others who say it is unhealthy to reinforce stereotypes, eg. By using them on work signatures

For me though, adding she/her pronouns to everything and even having being asked what they are verbally, she/her feels alien to me in a visceral way. I'm curious about this because I have several friends who don't share that feeling at all.

Im GC and I don't believe people are binary. I have elements of feminity and masculinity that whatever else that form who I am. I know I'm a woman, I have endometriosis so I'm painfully aware, as well as all the other reasons women are made aware of their sex.

It comes down to adding 'she/her' to everything would not feel right to me, as though it didn't reflect me. It would like I was falsely reinforcing my womanhood when I don't live my life that way or feel that way. Am I making sense? Do others feel this way?

One of the go-to attack lines against trans women is attacking them for insufficiently feminine behavior or appearance.

Trans women absolutely face many of the same attacks and expectations typically directed at women.

While also simultaneously facing pressure to transition and conform to the expectations imposed on men.

*pressure to detransition

Right, violence is stored in the chromosomes, and other bioessentialist bullshit.

She means men. Men are statistically more likely to be violent both to each other and to women. The vast majority of men have XY chromosomes so it has predictive value. It's not "bioessentialist".

You literally throw a fit over the notion that some people might use the same words to describe themselves.

How is that not selfish?
It has been clearly explained to you why we need a clear word for adult human female. That word is woman. Get your thieving hands off it.

Which part of genetics are you referring to? Chromosomes?
Oh, all of it. See post above above height and personality and so on. There are some great podcasts out there on the impact of genetics on personality. Perhaps you should go and listen to a few rather than haranguing us here.

You literally throw a fit over the notion that some people might use the same words to describe themselves.

Your reading skills are a bit rusty. I said call yourself what you like but don't expect other people to join in. Words have a meaning. If I identify as black when I'm white or as a doctor when I'm not, I don't expect to win prizes reserved for black authors or treat patients. Similarly if males want to call themselves women, they can - but that has no legal value and doesn't mean they can access facilities, spaces or competitions reserved for females.

Oh, so you do believe personality is dictated by sex? Interesting.

I thought that belief was, you know, sexist.

So men being more violent is being classed as bioessentialist…….. riiiiggghhhhht.

twitter.com/sueveneer/status/1528341076943175680

Because words have (or at least used to have) generally accepted meanings.
If someone decides to change the meaning of those words they become... erm... meaningless.

Can I start calling myself a doctor and use the title Dr. Even though I'm not one? And if not, why not? I identify as a Dr so I'm sure you'll let me operate on you/prescribed you some meds/whatever.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Love that. Girls.

@IstayedForTheFeminism
> Because words have (or at least used to have) generally accepted meanings.
If someone decides to change the meaning of those words they become... erm... meaningless.

I told you. Meaning can change. And the currently commonly recognized meanings already include trans women.

Commonly having been redefined to mean a small number of people mostly on Twitter

My skin is white….. but I identify as black.

I am essentially a wannabe coconut.

Not really. Dictionary definitions include trans women also. And passing trans women in particular have little issue being commonly regarded as women in their everyday lives.

I told you. Meaning can change. And the currently commonly recognized meanings already include trans women.
No, I'm afraid not.A few years ago I think more people would have agreed with you but transactivism has really woken people up to what's going on and the stealthy way language is being altered to erase women. So, no. Bit of an own goal there.

Go to attack lines from whom? I've never heard of this. Whose business is it what someone else wears? And I don't doubt what you say about facing similar issues.

Still, it isn't the same as being a natal woman who has lived that life from birth with everything that comes with it. That isn't a criticism or a gotcha, just a fact. Ive heard of men becoming trans women and being shocked by what life is like as a woman, harrassment and everything that goes with it.

passing trans women in particular have little issue being commonly regarded as women in their everyday lives.
Interesting that you differentiate between passing (a small minority of a minority) and non-passing. Still doesn't they have a right to women's spaces.

Nope sorry. Most of the people I know would say a woman was a female. Probably whilst looking at me like I'd lost the plot for asking.

The words woman and female are taken. Transwomen will have to find their own. How about... hmm... transwomen?

@Zerogravity

I have to be honest it’s made people swing the other way and actively become transphobic. Had this discussion with my friends and they agreed.

A few years ago it was just a case of live and let live but that’s changed now. The aggressive trans activism has totally changed the landscape and made us ACTIVELY transphobic.

Not one of us was even remotely embarassed to admit it. Transphobic and proud here.

@janeseymour78
> That isn't a criticism or a gotcha, just a fact. Ive heard of men becoming trans women and being shocked by what life is like as a woman, harrassment and everything that goes with it.

I think a big part of the problem is that rather than work to challenge these issues together, the critical mass of the GC movements insist on completely pushing trans women away altogether.

It wouldn't be a problem if transactivism wasn't actively trying to stop women from having their own spaces and language.

One of the go-to attack lines against trans women is attacking them for insufficiently feminine behavior or appearance.
Trans women absolutely face many of the same attacks and expectations typically directed at women.

There are a vast array of ways in which women are attacked which absolutely do not and can never apply to trans women. There are very, very few points of similarity. Women are more likely to die in a car crash and in many medical procedures - TW are protected like other men. Women are disadvantaged in our society because of their ability to be pregnant, birth and lactate - not TW obviously as they can't and people know they can't (i.e. a person recruiting for a job is not going to choose a man over a TW fearing that the TW might get pregnant and leave but that happens to women all the time). Women are raised to be compliant and 'kind' - not TW largely as despite their identity they present as male. I think it is a fallacy to pretend that the pressures we feel are the same as many female pressures come from their biology and societal overlays on that. TW have no more in common biolgically with a woman than any other man does.

While also simultaneously facing pressure to transition and conform to the expectations imposed on men.

Well that may be right because yes, as this acknowledges, most TW are clearly men so that would be an issue for them as it is for other men. Personally I would like to breakdown societal expectations on both men and women and I think gender ideology is entrenching it.

But that's precisely part of a problem. Do you think insisting on completely excluding and alienating trans women is any way to work towards addressing shared issues?

So many GC people are even willing to burn down women's rights just to maintain the separation, like the ones actively working with the conservative right.

Firstly Trans women are male and feminism is for women

secondly the behaviour of TRA is wholly & completely to blame for womens stance. Talk about being given a inch and taking the proverbial mile! All beeee kiiiiind got women was men stomping all over everything women had as their own. They have no one to blame but themselves for the pushback

@Zerogravity

Indeed. I also didn’t know that hardcore activists were trying to get the consent laws changed 😮. Unbelievable.