Do pronouns feel alien to anyone else?

[janeseymour78]

By this, I mean I have friends who are 100% pro pronouns as a show of support and we've had our debates, and then there are others who say it is unhealthy to reinforce stereotypes, eg. By using them on work signatures

For me though, adding she/her pronouns to everything and even having being asked what they are verbally, she/her feels alien to me in a visceral way. I'm curious about this because I have several friends who don't share that feeling at all.

Im GC and I don't believe people are binary. I have elements of feminity and masculinity that whatever else that form who I am. I know I'm a woman, I have endometriosis so I'm painfully aware, as well as all the other reasons women are made aware of their sex.

It comes down to adding 'she/her' to everything would not feel right to me, as though it didn't reflect me. It would like I was falsely reinforcing my womanhood when I don't live my life that way or feel that way. Am I making sense? Do others feel this way?

The dictionary says trans men are men and trams women are women.

Yup. All that good work is being undone. If the gender identity ideology gets what it wants, everyone must identify with one bundle of the stereotypes which were constructed around how (mostly sexist) societies interpreted proper sex-based behaviour.

But why would anyone wish to do that when the alternative is to just be your own person but to accept that you are either of the female or the male sex?

No such thing as trans. Anyway even if there was (and I don’t believe there is) why don’t they stick the pronouns on to the end of their emails?

Why are we all expected to indulge in this nonsense? I haven’t met a single person in my life who agrees with it and I know many different people from all walks.

Actually i am lying. There is one person who has done it on her Instagram and she hasn’t got a mind of her own. She’s also the type to share ridiculous things on social media and has zero critical thinking skills.

That's all we're saying, that's all we're asking for. To give people the option to choose.
But the thing is, luv, you can't choose your biology. End of. You can present however you want, but saying something doesn't make it true. And I don't want to become complicit in your madness.

Or let me explain. I can take a colt (a young male horse) and cut his nuts off. This happens frequently, because stallions (intact adult male horses) can be bloody hard to handle, and geldings (the ones with no nuts) are generally much more placid. However, neither I nor the gelding can turn him into a mare (an adult female horse). If I want another foal, I need to put the mare in with the stallion.

It's the same with dogs. Guinea pigs. Cape buffalo. Grizzly bears. I won't even get on to the birds and the bees. There is a sex binary. You don't get to choose where you are. You can choose how you present, but you can't choose your sex, and you don't get to tell other people that the words they use have changed their meanings.

There are two types of pronoun displayers: controlling trans activists or advocates of both sexes and virtue signalling #bekind people who haven't really thought it all through.

@EdithStourton
> But the thing is, luv, you can't choose your biology.

We can choose our labels, and we can alter our biology.

I want to thank SeldomHere for engaging on this thread.

To see how they have some comprehensively ignored the crux of our arguments, claimed we are saying things we are not, and indeed are the opposite of our position, their inability to provide rigorous and defensible definitions of their key concepts, and their insistence we just have to be nice and respect others identities without addressing in any way the damaging implications that has for women, has really highlighted in one thread both the vacuity at the heart of the gender ideologists position, and their complete lack of interest or concern for women and girls.

@divingskies
> and indeed are the opposite of our position

Like you do when you project nonsense on us like the supposed belief that "feminine men must be women"?

It's a load of bollocks. Just ignore.

All the definitions I found mention "transitioning from male to female" or "a woman who was born male"

So they imply that it's not actually the same as a woman.

Some even said "a male with a female gender identity"

So no.
It doesn't say a transwoman is a woman.

Because being a "boy" or a "girl" are both a matter of gender rather than "biological sex
Sex has a legal and biological meaning that most people understand. As long as that is understood, trans women can call themselves women. What they can't do is expect to be treated as women in all circumstances.

We can choose our labels, and we can alter our biology.

Everyone can. Women who don't identify as men can take hormones or get a hysterectomy. It doesn't change their sex.

that simply means they feel comfortable as a woman

I don't know what this means though. My body is just what it is. There are bits about it that are a bit shit and bits that are not so bad. It's a woman's body which is a biological fact. But that does not mean I feel comfortable as a woman.

Do you just mean it says you're not trans? Assuming people will see that I'm female which they probably will given how accurate humans are at sexing one another.

You can use whatever label you want, but your biology, in terms of your genetics, is immutable. You can cut your nuts off, but while that will have an impact on your endocrine system, it won't change your genes. It will, to use my analogy above, turn you into a gelding, not a mare.

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.

So a woman who’s had a hysterectomy is a man?

These still mean that they are women, become female, and/or are female on account of their gender identity.

Nope, that's not what I said.

Having a hysterectomy changes your sex? I'll tell my mum. Or do I mean my new dad? Not sure how she'll take it, having been a woman for many many years.

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.

You can't alter the key parts. A man will always only have been on a small gamete producing pathway regardless of whether he gets injected with female hormones, lasers his facial hair, has his penis removed etc.

I know it's not what some people want to hear and I hope they can find peace with being the embodied person that they are but medical advances do not have the ability to put a man on a large gamete producing pathway so they will never change sex.

That can be OK though as it does not speak to their identity.

Like you do when you project nonsense on us like the supposed belief that "feminine men must be women"?

What are you talking about?

I don't say that.

You have done all the things I outlined though.

Men are XY chromosomes and women are XX. That's it.

So if a transwoman is actually a woman and can become female what words are there to describe biological females?
Because if trans women are women and can become female then woman and female are both gender terms.

So if a biological man has cosmetic surgery to impersonate being a woman, does he need to inform future sexual partners (I.e biological men) ?
Surely this raises consent issues. Biological men need to know they’re having sex with a biological man and not a “woman”.