Do pronouns feel alien to anyone else?

[janeseymour78]

By this, I mean I have friends who are 100% pro pronouns as a show of support and we've had our debates, and then there are others who say it is unhealthy to reinforce stereotypes, eg. By using them on work signatures

For me though, adding she/her pronouns to everything and even having being asked what they are verbally, she/her feels alien to me in a visceral way. I'm curious about this because I have several friends who don't share that feeling at all.

Im GC and I don't believe people are binary. I have elements of feminity and masculinity that whatever else that form who I am. I know I'm a woman, I have endometriosis so I'm painfully aware, as well as all the other reasons women are made aware of their sex.

It comes down to adding 'she/her' to everything would not feel right to me, as though it didn't reflect me. It would like I was falsely reinforcing my womanhood when I don't live my life that way or feel that way. Am I making sense? Do others feel this way?

I have.

That's the purpose of stating pronouns. Duh.

"Woman" which even at its widest gender ideological conceptualisation is mostly female people, must mean something to opposite sexed trans people for them to claim it. What does it mean to them? Let's not be disingenuous that it has zero to do with sex, that's an obvious falsehood.

I notice you clipped the bit of my quote where I said "or opposite gender" off. So what exactly am I misinterpreting? If being trans doesn't make you the opposite sex, which you seem to be agreeing with then transwomen are male. Good we agree. And in English the word for an adult male human is Man.

So what is a trans woman? So far you've told us it aren't based on stereotypes; and it's not to do with likes and dislikes. So what is it?

I don't particularly care what pronouns people use. If someone asks me to use the opposite of what I'd expect (eg he/him for a transman) or they/them then I will. I've got a transman acquaintance. I refer to him as a transman. While acknowledging that he is biologically female.
What I object to is being told I need to display/announce my pronouns. Use the ones you think I am. If you get it wrong and it bothers me I'll tell you. Chances are I won't care.

I have

No you haven't.

I work with hundreds of young people I can't remember everyone's pronouns. I also speak multiple languages at work - and the "pronoun issue" is very relevant as sex is not just expressed through pronouns but in other ways too. It's not as simple as you seem to think. You seem to think everyone is monolingual and has very limited contact with people.

It's not my fault you keep ignoring it.

It has also been explained to you that your definition was all about steretypes. You seem to be ignoring that.

And I told you countless of times, if you think feminine names and pronouns are stereotypes, then refusing to refer to trans women by feminine names and pronouns is enforcing stereotypes.

Imposing "sex-based" names and pronouns is like imposing "sex-based" clothes.

Going back to the OP, to be forced to declare my pronouns bothers me because it suggests that I've ever had a choice in being female and all the experiences I've had on account of being female, when I haven't. I have never chosen either femininity or my female body as an identity. Femininity is a social construct that has been imposed upon me by society, some aspects of which I have embraced and many I have rejected for the ways in which they disadvantage and oppress me. My female body is a fact of biology, not something I have chosen, and whilst I would love to reject how my female body causes others to react to me, this has not been possible - I mean, I could transition, but I don't particularly want to have a masculine body, I just want to avoid the trouble that others give me for having a female body eg. sexual assault, being undermined at work etc. Being asked to display pronouns undermines my lived reality of being a woman, because it implies that being a woman is just a concept and something that I have chosen for myself, when it has never been a choice.

It's not my fault you keep ignoring it.

Indulge me again. And no "they just are women" isn't a meaningful answer. Why do biological males feel that they are better described as the word for female people when there is a word that describes an adult male person? If it has nothing to do with stereotypes, social expectations around sex etc?

@penpalgal
> I have never chosen either femininity or my female body as an identity. Femininity is a social construct that has been imposed upon me by society

Do you think any of this is different for trans people?

Well a lot of tw wholeheartedly embrace stereotypes!

Do people really thing gender is a social construct? Lol 😂

Last I heard you needed a sperm and an egg to reproduce. Sperm from the male and egg from the female. Biological fact.

My 10 year old daughter believed there was more than two genders so I had to set the record straight with her not to believe this nonsense that some woke loon imagined up.

• think

A trans woman who like to wear dresses is just a woman who likes to wear dresses.

Nothing more to it.

So what's the difference between a tw wearing a dress and a man wearing a dress?

Indeed, many of the young girls who are claiming to be transmen feel exactly the same as I do, but rather than fight sexism and stereotypes their solution is to claim the identity of 'male' instead, so they don't have to. It's very understandable, being a woman in a never-ending battle against new forms of misogyny, TRAs and gender identity ideology being the latest form - if you can't fight em, join em. You should read Abigail Shrier's book, 'Irreversible Damage', then you might gain a deeper understanding of how these young girls claiming a trans identity are feeling.

Gender is a social construct.
Sex isn't.

Oh do piss if Seldom. Men and women are biological reality, not social construct. Under your ridiculous logic everything is a social construct, as humans gave them names. So a mountain is a social construct!

Why the hell should I respect your crazy labels when you show absolutely no respect to women on this forum, calling them cis, calling them bigots. Who the hell made you the judge of what I should respect and give headspace to?

Only one of them is confused about what sex they are, and think 'feeling womanly' actually makes them a woman. NATWALT

@IstayedForTheFeminism

oh right …… so does this mean I’m not allowed to call myself a female then? What’s the correct term for sex? Shall I just refer to myself as someone who holds two X chromosomes 🤦‍♀️.

Mind boggling stuff. I don’t care what anyone says. There are males and there are females, two genders of the opposite sex.

This is how I’m educating my daughter that’s for sure.

I think you mean there are two sexes. Gender used to be used to refer to sex but generally it is less confusing just to say sex!

Because we need to be able to name sex based oppression of women that remains ride around the world. Removing these categories and talking primarily violence against women and making it 'violence against people's or whatever is a gift to the patriarchy. It is essentially saying sex based oppression of women doesn't exist. We NEED to be able to give it a name. Young girls are victims of FDM because they are biological girls - it is very, very important to be able to name that reality.

Like I said, happy to use trans person's pronouns that make them feel comfortable. That is separate to now discussing removing all categories.