All Trans Shortlists?

[pop91]

Hi,
Trans person here.
I've posted here before with a not so great interaction hoping this one won't be so toxic😅

Question relating to All Women shortlists for example in politics and the inclusion of transwomen:

Firstly, I actually agree that trans-women shouldn't be on the normal all-women shortlist in almost the same way I don't think someone who's only got one BAME grandparent should be on an all BAME shortlist.

For me, it doesn't provide the best position to have people not fully understanding of the issues to be at the forefront of tackling them with all the knowledge present. So, for example, Lisa Nandy technically has mixed heritage but experiences life largely as a white person so can't for example tackle colourism as well as someone more visibly BAME. Likewise, a trans woman can't tackle period poverty as effectively!

But I understand that's not the same as the GC position of the trans woman not being a real woman so effectively to be considered automatically ineligible for GCs.

However, on the flip side, I don't believe non-trans people can tackle the issues for trans people as effectively as a trans person could! which is why I believe there should be at least some All-trans shortlists, especially in areas with higher percentages of trans people, like London for example.

Currently, there is only one trans person in parliament and he has only just come out and soon plans to leave politics, likely leaving parliament with zero trans people after the next general election. Effectively leaving trans people with zero national political representation again - obviously from my standpoint that is distressing!

Withstanding the GC argument that Trans people aren't real or that it's all gender ideology and that therefore there is no need for a Trans MP - I understand that is the opinion many here hold however as you will know most Trans people believe their identity to be real and not an ideology, myself included and therefore ask for different answers. TLDR: I know you believe Trans is all ideology but we don't and saying so won't change my mind or further this discussion🙂

So my questions:

1. Would GC's then protest All-Trans shortlists if trans women were specifically not included on the All-women shortlists?
2. Would GC's still protest if it was made clear that All-Trans shortlists would only be used in seats held by male MP's and not already using an All-Women shortlist?

A question that's not strictly relevant but I've asked other trans people and you might find interesting:

1. Should there then be separate All-Trans shortlists for trans men, trans women and non-binary people?

Also, considering just how much discrimination females face due to their sexed bodies, what provision would be added to this theoretical list for proportional representation within that short list for the transitioned females.

Ie. The trans men. So that it will not just be another short list for males … yet again?

I'm sure we can find many, many nonbinary MPs. I mean, I've yet to meet anyone who's not non-binary, tbh.

Trans people unrepresented in Parliament?

Oh bless you!

"Withstanding the GC argument that Trans people aren't real"

I think we know that transpeople and are real. They made it very clear this weekend in Manchester @pop91 . They surrounded a statue of E Pankhurst and tried to intimidate women.

With respect to all women's shortlists etc, no, transwomen can create their own lists. It's really very simple. If transwomen want to be women, understand women, they'll listen to us and will know what we really want, and that it is to respected as adult human females

conversion therapy not having included trans people when it was promised.

Oh you've misunderstood. Or been keeping to believe something else. Banning conversion therapy for trans people would have meant not being able to explore trauma and sexual abuse amongst teens in therapy sessions. I'm sure you'd agree that the freedom for a therapist to ensure a child's trans journey is genuine and not the result of abuse is absolutely vital yes?

I have to ask… what ‘high profile’ trans person are you thinking?

Which one would have a profile that has remained fair, balanced and not said problematic things about the people who disagree with them, and don’t have backgrounds that involve advocacy for issues that voters might find unacceptable?

Well, the other hand, there's all of the SNP (bar one); the Green MP; the Labour Party (bar a handful); Plaid; Crispin Blunt (Con), Penny Mordaunt (Con), Maria Miller (Con), Caroline Nokes (Con) and others who are happily wedded to Stonewall's thinking.

The UK Government is waiting for the Cass Review, regarding its stance on GRA reform and 'gender conversion therapy'. You must know this? It's a lively debate.

All of which you may agree with but for us having no trans person to voice our opposition in parliament hurts.

Again you may not be aware but here you go and see your local MP if you want your issues discussed.

And we have a trans MP.

Defining trans is not an issue for me but rather me providing the definition here is the issue! If I define it then that becomes the discussion! I use the popular definition for trans and I would not like to debate it for the 1000000th time.

If an MP detransitioned then they wouldn't be trans! If they re-transitioned they would be trans! I don't understand the issue.

A NB person who is Trans? Yes

Yes there are MPs from many minority groups but that is a subset and they are not there purely because they are Jewish / lesbian / neuro diverse. They won't be single issue MPs there just to represent their subset. They will hopefully be there to represent their area.
If you zoom out the common class is sex and one sex is vastly over represented. That is why there are shortlists, to force women through and redress the balance.
I don't see how a trans shortlist would not be at the expense of women either given that each area only needs one MP to put forward as a candidate. So if Labour have a trans shortlist and a women shortlist, there can still only be one from either put forward, how would that be decided?

both? why couldn't a trans mp both represent trans people and their constituency?

David Lammy represents the white people in his constituency even if he speaks out a lot on BAME issues.

Oh is OP from the USA?
A troll then?
But some useful discussion has come out of this.

Oh dear.

Bans on ‘trans kids’ medication?

What makes a trans kid? What medication should any child or young person be prescribed considering the long term health issues are as yet unknown and not clearly recognized. (Look up Lupron and exactly what it has done to girls who have taken it as a start).

And have you missed the transitioned male clinicians who are raising the alarm about this.

By the way, this is a parenting site and you are talking about potentially poster’s children here.

What exactly would you see a trans MP advocating for with regards to ‘trans kids’ medication? That it be used as a treatment despite the alarms being raised about it? What other treatments is that acceptable for?

I find your OP to be racist. It really isn't your gift to decide if someone is BAME enough to represent their community.

In terms of trans only shortlists, it sounds incredibly exclusionary and divisive. If people can only represent people who are exactly like them, then you will lock in bigotry and lack of understanding.

I haven't lived in poverty, does that mean I'm not allowed to stand for election in order to reduce poverty? No, I can stand for election and listen to my constituents who are in poverty and listen to what they need from me.

Similarly, I'm not trans. That doesn't mean I am incapable of supporting a trans constituent get access to specific support that is not available.

The tories would never run a trans only shortlist!
so no worries there.

As a liberal, I'd want a liberal trans mp and that would be the most likely scenario as there is no love lost between trans people and the conservative party!

why couldn't a trans mp both represent trans people and their constituency?

And of the constituency disagreed with the MP on a trans related bill, what would that MP do?

I can define trans I simply won't on this site.
It would only derail any meaningful conversation.

If you want trans shortlists to represent trans issues in parliament, when trans people are such a minority, where do you draw the lines? Parliament make laws about all kinds of issues and it’s not possible to represent everyone; we don’t have MPs representing all professions, all disabilities, all economic backgrounds. Laws are made which effect the disabled, people on benefits, NHS workers - they’re not all properly represented in parliament.

Women are not a minority and that’s why it’s so important to have women only shortlists, because women make up half of the population but are under-represented in politics. Some minorities can be included under umbrella terms, so for example you can have BAME shortlists but you cannot ensure that within that you have a politician representing every racial and cultural identity within that umbrella. You might be able to have an LGBTQA+ shortlist but within that I don’t think you can ensure you have a politician representing every identity within that term. Being trans is really too specific and too much of a minority to warrant an all trans shortlist.

@MidCenturyClegs It was my assumption that they were in the US given their post about 20 odd minutes ago. But perhaps they are in the UK whilst the rest of their family and friends are in the US.

I don't think you read the original post properly!

I belive in many shortlists

I thought James Wallis is a tory, he got lots of love (stop sniggering at the back).

What would your trans MP campaign for/against and why?

I just......what......clearly trolling when I'm asking politely.

No transgender DOES NOT AND HAS NEVER included furries or wannabe babies. the clues in the name!

ban's on trans kid's medications

The medications that are the same drugs used to castrate rapists? Those drugs? Damn right they should be banned.

I'd want an MP who is proud of being trans so Debbie Hayton would not work for me no.