Celebrity incidents - men and women

[stopwaitingforpermissiontobeyou]

Off the back of the Amber Heard/Johnny trial.

It put me in mind of the Ryan Thomas/Roxanne Pallett incident.

Peter Andre in the press today, having once again been shamed by Rebekah Vardy, after she made comments about his anatomy (as Peter himself says, the other way round there would be outrage). Peter will be mocked, on social media and I'm sure it will be mentioned here, about him being a snowflake, poor him, etc etc.

When men, and I mean specifically in the public eye, do something towards a woman they are (rightly so) addressed for it on social media.

But when it's a woman? Particularly with Roxanne and Amber, people continue to make excuses for them, stick up for them and find ways to make it the fault of the man.

There is a huge disparity between how men and women are treated in the public eye.

Why one earth are you posting this here? Everyone here is going to disagree, tell you how much worse it is for women and say if it does sometimes happen then it’s proof feminism is needed (even if it’s being defended or done by people who are either feminists or people being defended by them - but that’s alright because they are somehow still victims of men so it’s excusable because men are the ultimate cause of their bad behaviour ).

But really the best example are these forums - there are things often said on here which would get forums banned if they were said by men. But then maybe men are less inclined to come and try to get places like this banned, idk.

there are things often said on here which would get forums banned if they were said by men

I don't understand this @Tamzo85 , could you give some examples to help me out?

the defendant in that case was 'famous in the public eye'

the fact that the 17 year old child he had sex with was wearing lace underwear was deemed to be important enough to raise in court as a reason to doubt her word about what happened.

do you think that was completely unrelated to her sex?

But really the best example are these forums - there are things often said on here which would get forums banned if they were said by men. But then maybe men are less inclined to come and try to get places like this banned, idk.

Are you for real? Men have been trying to get this board shut down for years.

How strange. Please could you give some examples.

Agreed. There's a steady stream of posters who spend hours on here making countless posts moaning about the "sexist" or "transphobic" views of women posters. There's a range of creepy monitors who watch threads and then complain to MNHQ if they don't like what they read.
Shutting this place down appears to be their life ambition (sad as that is)

There are hundreds - literally hundreds - of very famous men whose careers flourish despite their mistreatment of women. I'm sure if we thought MN would allow it we could name 100 in about 20 mins.
You have given 2 examples of high(ish) profile female abusers but your claim that they got away with their behaviour is incorrect. Roxanne Pallet was absolutely hauled over the coals in the press and social media. I haven't seen her acting in anything since. Didn't she leave the country in fact? And as for Amber Heard, the coverage of the trial online is certainly not favourable towards her. Doesn't it tell you something that your examples are the result of some serious barrel scraping, whereas I can easily think of dozens of A list men off the top of my head who've done terrible things and are still popular and successful?

And there are more than enough sites where rampant misogyny runs unchecked- it’s quite unusual to not be aware of that.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Things like cocklodgers being used about lower earning men - imagine the equivalent of a lower earning woman and the offense it would give. Sperm Donors for divorced fathers (I’ve seen it from some posters) and on and on.
Not to mention the usual complete double standards about what is “wise” for women financially (different accounts or not marrying) being “financial abuse” from men.

Im not saying all posters say this stuff, but many do. Now I’m sure some will excuse that by saying “oh no those terms only apply to men who x,y,z and are therefore deserving” - but I’m sure men could come up with similar justifications for calling women horrible names - and people on here wouldn’t accept that.

I find these boards very sexist and not reflective of most women - and I doubt most of those who post here talk that way irl.

I find these boards very sexist and not reflective of most women - and I doubt most of those who post here talk that way irl

do you mean the feminist boards or mumsne as a whole?

the tone is very different here to the rest of the site

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

The whole site as far as relationship stuff goes - I’ve barely looked at this particular forum, I have no interest in most of the topics. I thought this post was going to be something about specific celebrities.

I'm not misogynistic at all, unless it is possible to hate and fear oneself.

It is. It's called internalised misogyny (there's also racism and homophobia version). It's a recognised phenomenon.

Learning is fun.

and as for men being held to different standards. a very brief google unearthed this

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=210&t=1470666&i=8660

436 pages of 'my wife's so stupid that...'

some of the posts are affectionate and some are....not

The whole site as far as relationship stuff goes

mmm hmm

scanning down the relationships board, the first instance of the word 'cocklodger' that I found was on this thread, from a woman who supports her husband's business and has now discovered that he's been spending money on prostituted women and men and drugs.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4545841-escorts-and-drugs

you think people are being unfair to this poor chap?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Like I said - I’m sure you could pull examples and say “see he deserved it” - but there are also shitty women and men calling them whatever name could pull up their beahviour and say “see we were right”. And yet, the names they are called will still be taken offense too.

Plus like I said, it’s often thrown around when undeserved. But if you want to believe that all this instances of slurs on men like that are justified whereas those against women are not, you do you.

Like I said I’m not much interested in these topics anyway.

ummm, OK

so you're not interested, and yet here you are

there are definitely cases where a man is taking the piss out of his partner and not contributing equally to the relationship, but mentioning might make all men feel bad so no-one should?

also examples are to be hand waved away and not engaged with

right you are.

i think someone upthread recommended that the OP examine the basis of her views. it might be an idea for you too?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

Like I said I clicked thinking this was about a specific celeb scandal. I really don’t care and will depart these waters now as I doubt anything more than justification of these types of slurs (when made by women) and condemnation of similar by men is possible.

justification of these types of slurs

I was just seeking to find the parameters. in the thread i linked to it seemed pretty cut and dried. he's a cocklodger, no?

but it's not OK to say so because sometimes men aren't?

and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Piston Heads 'my wife's so stupid' thread, but I'm guessing I'm not going to.....

My point exactly

Whenever I try and point out how one way these boards are, people tell me to start my own thread on the issue and they would be equally as in support...which we know is not true

Eh, there are daily threads on here about how dreadful men are.

I was being flippant, because I'm so bored by the MN concept that if you dont agree that women have it much worse than men, you are a misogynist.

Weird example as the media and public in general were entirely on Ryan Thomas' 'side' (rightly so tbh as if there hadn't been cameras present he would have been ruined) and Roxanne Pallet's career finished as a result of her lying. The interview with Emma Willis was actually really interesting and the understandable contempt she felt for someone who lied about being punched in the ribs, then re-enacted that punch that never happened, was palpable. Loads of previous co-stars came out in Ryan Thomas' defence and loads of previous co-stars of Roxanne Palett's said she has a history of false claims and manipulation. She definitely got no special treatment or any free passes, she was quite rightly held to account, so it's a bad example to use! I fact, a headline from the time shows more than 25k people complained about her treatment of Ryan Thomas: Roxanne Pallett becomes most complained-about celebrity of 2018 (Over 25,000 viewers wrote to Ofcom after watching Roxanne Pallett lying about Ryan Thomas 'attacking' her on Celebrity Big Brother).

And this article neatly sums up the blind support for Johnny Depp that has been prevalent throughout the ongoing case in so, so many places: www.independent.co.uk/voices/amber-heard-johnny-depp-fans-memes-reddit-b2076329.html?amp I've seen way more support for him than for Amber in general, despite him fantasising in messages about drowning her, burning her body and raping her corpse. He is an open supporter of alleged multiple rapist Marilyn Manson and also Roman Polanski who admitted to raping a 13 year old girl. Depp called Polanski a 'family man'. Despite all this I've seen him supported and AH vilified in the press for weeks on end during this trial. And it seems to have been forgotten that the trial is to decide not if Amber has ever abused, but if he has ever abused her - because if he has then her words are not a lie and therefore he cannot win the case. So even in a case that asks whether or not a man abused a woman, the narrative is 'ah but did she deserve it?' Misogyny in action IMO. The classic 'if he did it, she must have driven him to it'. So I can't see how either of your examples show women getting favourable treatment. Roxanne didn't (and she was held to account as she lost her reputation and career while quite rightly Ryan Thomas was supported from all angles) and Amber didn't (wrongly IMO as the median narrative in the case has been turned into whether or not she was abusive to him when the crux of the case is whether or not he ever abused her).

I remember it well.

I dont suppose I'm so mich getting at tbe public reaction.

What I meant by that reference was that with one slight change of circumstance Ryan's life would have been finished . The only thing that saved him was the video evidence. If it had taken place in the toilet, the way things are we would have been seen to jump to Roxannes defence.

Re Amber, the public and social media is firmly on Johnny's side, but on the boards here that isnt reflective. I was absolutely lynched on here not too long ago for saying I dont believe Amber's story with the broken bottle, as apparently that means I disbelieve abuse survivors. But with men, we dont apply that black and white logic.

Re Amber, the public and social media is firmly on Johnny's side, but on the boards here that isnt reflective.

I think this is absolutely unique to Mumsnet tbh.

Overwhelmingly, on social media including Twitter, Reddit, TikTok and Instagram, which have larger user based and between them have a far broader range of ages and all other demographics, the public has been far more supportive of Depp than Heard.

No malice may be intended but I do think this is an issue where your hypothesis is based on MN which isn't a reflection of broad public opinion.