Peter Boghossian

[TheCurrywurstPrion]

I found this fascinating video on Twitter. Philosopher Peter Boghossian was carrying out a thought experiment around the statement “There are only two genders” in the street outside the social work department of Portland University.

A group of people come out to challenge him. Watch what happens when it comes to the point that they cannot challenge him further and realise to continue means they will actually have to engage.

I found that quite depressing.

Their only argument is talking about 'harm' and 'being hurtful' and then the massive leap to suicide ideation.

These 'advocates' need to spend more time teaching resilience to their students.

What a shit show - supposedly intelligent young people with not an ounce of common sense or critical thinking ability. The person explaining what it means to be non-binary and that gender is a social construct and how could an old man assigned male at birth back in the Dark Ages possibly understand (paraphrasing ) was cringe inducing. The person talking about the dangers of not having qualified emotional support available in response to such triggering actions - well, words fail me.....

I hope this group of 'social workers' looks back on this in twenty years and cringes.

I can't even bear to watch this sort of thing, and haven't watched this one. The few I have seen bits of are just too horrible.

It's a combination of vicarious embarrassment at people making such fools of themselves, and not wanting to fully confront the fact this sort of ignorance and bigotry could be so prevalent, and not be generally recognised for what it is.

They weren’t students, were they? They described themselves as social workers. Does that mean they’re adults employed in student services?

They weren’t students, were they? They described themselves as social workers.

They were students. They talked about going to lectures.

Tbh, if they are going to be social workers (assuming most of them were students) they will need to build a lot more resilience than they currently appear to have. Either that, or trail a trauma counsellor around with them so they can have a therapy session after each client meeting.

Whilst wearing the university uniform of hoody and earrings that was has been the norm for females at university for at least twenty years.
We also had a range of hobbies, some of us drank spritzers and some drank pints. Some were gay, some straight, some bi. We somehow managed not to turn into stepford stereotypes without the label of non binary.

This is exactly how every Twitter debate goes. They run out of logic and start calling you a bigot. It's the script they're all forced to follow in the abscess of anything else.

I also find the level.of self sacrifice disturbing. Not one of them felt able to remotely think about themselves. What they want..how they feel

This is an interesting comment. Looking at my DD’s group of friends, I think you’ve touched on something important. Teen years are confusing enough in trying to separate from parents and become individuals, but yes many are self sacrificing to the point of self denial and even martyrdom. Not thinking at all about what they want. Leaving them with a less solid sense of self.

Coming from good intentions (being kind) in being self sacrificing they’re giving away not only their rights without the slightest recognition of doing so, they are also willingly handing over the rights of vulnerable women without a single thought.

I’d say that it’s largely thanks to SM that this has come about. Taking and absorbing their identity from SM posts. All based on sand.

“it’s sounded to me that the woman defending the non binary person also refers to them as “she”when defending them”

She did indeed. Maybe he didn’t notice, or maybe he didn’t point it out because he didn’t want to challenge them too directly.

"I don't fit in the box of just a cis woman"

Too stupid to realise THEY are the ones enforcing these boxes.

well he didn’t even get to carry out his thought experiment but he certainly proved a point, I wonder if any of them will have enough intellectual curiosity to look back on the whole exchange and learn something from it.

I’d love to know what the harm is that they’re so worried about being done to people; sorry Folks, and how they expect said folks to exist in wider society when everywhere off campus isn’t a safe space and people do have different opinions. How on earth could a social worker have a career without coming into contact with people who know there are 2 sexes?

And as for that nonbinary woman, in what way does she imagine she’s gender nonconforming?! Who says male and female are boxes?! I think people like her are the ones creating the boxes, ‘If you don’t fit XYZ stereotypes you’re not a woman, you’re nonbinary’.
No love, you can dress, behave, work as anything you want regardless of what sex you are. Being a woman is simply the potential reproductive capacity type of your body. Anything else is window dressing and personality 🙄

Even after he tells her he's a gender studies professor she can't stop being condescending. So dumb.

People who use the phrase 'boomers' should be automatically excluded from any conversation.

Future social workers. Potentially people who might decide that a parent who expresses disagreement with gender ideology is an “unfit parent”.

It intrigued me how THEY are allowed to scream and swear at him (which is pretty threatening) without caring whether this “triggers and activates” him, but yet have the gall to complain a sign makes them suicidal. I know boghossian was unflappably polite during this exchange but I’m just fed up with the constant appeals to suicidality. If someone wants to kill themselves because they see a sign then I don’t know what to say. They should seek help and gain some resilience, because they are clearly very poorly. Why is this treated as a trump card ? the concept that other people don’t agree is entirely alien to them.

there were some really funny moments. Pointing out he is white when the other group were mostly white as well. The non binary individual launching into a patronising and boring speech about her identity without actually answering his questions (haha they can’t help themselves).

Really interesting clip!
Agree that it was interesting that they thought the this question was problematic, but questions on Ukraine were fine even though a Ukrainian student could be passing and potentially triggered
The non binary individual said 'sexuality is a social construct' hmm - not sure the gay community would accept that...
I did wonder though whether his statement was right in the first place - isn't the teams argument actually based on the premise that there are more than 2 sexes not 2 genders. In some ways I don't care how many genders people want to claim there are as it's all a social construct anyway, but I do care if people then think that that has anything to do with sex and the laws that come with being of a particular sex

Trans not teams!

I know what you mean having forced myself to watch footage of those pampered little fascists in Evergreen State University. It was equal parts embarrassment for them and sheer terror at the power they wielded.

I'm just glad we are again allowed to question and disagree on gender id here in the UK. Reform of the Gender Recognition Act was blocked for now thankfully. Whether Scotland ploughs on with it though who knows? Would the reforms to this act make it a criminal offence to have discussion such as this one, putting forums such as mumsnet liable? Looking across at Ireland who have self id written in law, how do gc people speak out?

They said one student was 'triggered' and had to go home after seeing the 'There are only two genders' sign.

I mean, they're concerned about people's mental health but surely the fact that a snowflake had to leave college because they saw a sign would be the real mental health concern.

If someone said to me that they were a professor, I’d ask: where? Of? What have you published?

I would not launch into an explanation of how old people don’t know things and need to learn from young people. With the best will in the world towards young people, that’s not the direction in which knowledge typically flows (there are exceptions, but assuming you know more than someone else purely because you have been alive for less time is perverse).

I can't believe they don't know who he is. He's very famous, particularly for the grievance studies controversy and his non-confrontational style wins him many debates. He's brilliant and is probably on their list of people to shun, hence they don't recognise him and ask him very stupid questions.

I can believe they don’t know very much at all from that little display.

Yep ageist in the extreme.
Non-binary as usual is meaningless - they don't feel like they are a "cis"
My God the navel gazing must be intense.

2 things I took from that video:

• How closely aligned non-binary is to being gc. Neither want to be defined by gender expectations.


• How important the word “critical “ is in gc, because it clearly illustrates the need for critical thinking and debate / seeing both sides of any argument.