Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues

[DameHelena]

I am REALLY struggling to see who I can vote for tomorrow, due to their position on this issue.
Labour: no
Lib Dems: no
Green: no
Very much would like not to vote Tory (am historically Labour and/or Green and tend to go Green in local elections).
We have a Womens Equality Party candidate, but I can't find their official stance on women's sex-based rights. Does anyone have any knowledge? And how are you voting if you're in the same position as me?

I know, it feels like a big hope that Labour policy nationally will change and maybe I'm being too optimistic. Luckily for me my local Labour candidate is what you would call Gender Critical and has stuck with the party to try and change it from the inside. However my ward has always swung between Conservative and Independent.
My MP is a safe Labour seat so at the general election I will protest vote in some way if me necessary.
It is such a shit situation to be in. I think we need to keep political pressure on over the next two years but like you say how can we trust Labour. I certainly can't with the current leadership. Labour need a massive overhaul before I can vote for them in the GE.

If they "know what a woman is' as you put in then why is it that all this gender based stuff is happening under them?

That is a bit like complaining the worldwide pandemic was their fault as it happened under them. The 'gender based stuff' doesn't come from the Tories - they are responding. Yes they have not been quick enough to realise what has happened but they are the only party that now seems to be listening and not just blindly following the ideology. The big problem happened under labour - the lie that men could become women so men had to be given access to female spaces if they had a GRC. This left the door wide open.

Yes Tory central might look at the council elections but so will labour and other parties and if they make big gains (mid term governments always expect a loss) then they will take it as a message to completely destroy women's rights.

All of this. First time ever, I am completely indifferent to party politics.

Yes Tory central might look at the council elections but so will labour and other parties and if they make big gains (mid term governments always expect a loss) then they will take it as a message to completely destroy women's rights

You are right. I am sorry for the Labour Candidate I was going to vote for who is great on women's sex-based rights, but the party HQ will just take labour votes as an endorsement of their current positions, and I don't want that. The Tory candidate is also excellent on women's sex based rights, so I am voting for him.

And yes. I see the way I feel obliged to vote as the responsibility of the current Labour leadership and party for taking a position so poisonous to women's rights and safety.

Labour canvasser just came round. I was open to a civilised debate with her but she was dismissive as soon as I said the phrase 'women's sex-based rights' – flapped her leaflets at me and edged away.
She asked if I'd personally not been able to use a single-sex space in a local leisure centre or park (spaces I brought up when she said this wasn't a local issue). I said no and she talked over me before I could say that this is the first local election since this issue really blew up and what I'm talking about is that I don't trust Labour in terms of future policies and actions.
Wouldn't listen to/didn't care about my point that local voting sends a message to the party nationally.

If I'd been wavering before, I certainly am not now. I will spoil my ballot. I can't see another option.

Ex labour members in my household. All voting for a local independent. All spoiling at the next general election UNLESS Labour or Green sort it out.

I will not accept misogyny from the right or the left & I will not be guilt tripped into putting women's rights and child safeguarding to the side for other issues. They intersect with those other issues anyway. Furthermore, if my labour candidate is lying to me on biological sex, then I don't trust them on poverty, climate or racism anyway.

That question is a total giveaway of how your candidate thinks. She's privileged enough that it doesn't affect her personally. She's only willing to get behind stuff that affects her, or is populist bandwagon stuff.

She asked if I'd personally not been able to use a single-sex space in a local leisure centre or park (spaces I brought up when she said this wasn't a local issue)

God she's either deliberately disingenuous or thick as mince. Loss of single sex spaces will clearly become more and more of a local issue if Labour party policy gets its way!

Exactly. Unfortunately the Tories have not protected single sex spaces in the their 13 years of power...

Weird, eh? the attitude 'if it hasn't happened to you personally, it doesn't happen.'
And I'm in an area full of observant religious people of various stripes. I guess she doesn't think or care about those groups either.

Exactly. Unfortunately the Tories have not protected single sex spaces in the their 13 years of power...

No, but they at least appear to be waking up to this as an issue, whereas the Labour party have completely divorced themselves from evidence and facts and are determined to push ahead even further to the harm of women and girls, and our removal as a category of people defined by our sex.

The big problem happened under labour - the lie that men could become women

We can't blame just Labour or just Tories for a worldwide movement. They aren't the ones in power in Canada, Sweden, the US, Ireland, New Zealand, Australia...

I think they are waking up to the possibility of getting more votes. Very few Tory MPs care about women’s rights on principle.

Interesting about spoiled ballots being examined so closely and read out to candidates. That's tempting.

I'd decided that I will vote for the two Labour candidates who did actually respond to my emailed questions about sex based rights: understandably (party line and all that) not quite how I'd have wished, but thoughtfully and respectfully. None of the other candidates responded at all. Plaid Cymru haven't even put a flyer through the door - not sure why they've bothered fielding candidates!

I've told the candidates clearly that while this is local, I'm never voting Labour in a General or Welsh election again until they sort this out, so I feel like I've done something useful by countering the dismissive 'never comes up on the doorsteps'. (One candidate said that it's come up quite a lot...) I feel like the local elections are a chance to send that message clearly 'up the line'.

Well, I don't know what is in the hearts and minds of Tory MPs who support sex based rights, or in the minds of of Labour MPs who are ending sex-based services and rights. But I do know that I would rather have someone supporting women's rights out of cynicism that someone destroying them out of principle.

Of course the Tory Party are doing it to get votes - that's what politicans do. But Labour could end this any time they wanted by making a clear declaration that they will uphold women's existing legal rights. The longer they put off doing it, the worse they look.

Just been and spoiled my ballot by writing 'Respect my Sex' over every candidate, nothing in any boxes, which I hope cant't be misconstrued as a vote for anyone.

Didn’t the tories vote against making misogyny a hate crime
and against a register for stalkers and domestic abusers
tory mps are also getting away with harassing women
and they have repeatedly been racist and generally disgusting to most groups, particularly those (including women) from
poorer backgrounds

If you vote Tory you are absolutely not helping women. At least be honest with yourself.

i say this as someone in a similar position who cannot bring myself to vote for labour now.

If you vote Tory you are absolutely not helping women. At least be honest with yourself.

Why do people keep having to point this out?
Posters on here AREN'T saying the Tories are good for women.
We're saying on THIS issue, they're the only party with a line we find acceptable (how much is true and how much expediency is another question and one we are not unaware of).

Didn’t the tories vote against making misogyny a hate crime

There are perfectly good reasons for not wanting a nebulous term like misogyny to be enshrined as a hate crime. The whole concept of hate crime is problematic but unfortunately we are stuck with it for now. Better not to expand it further.
It might be worth exploring alternatives.

I'd rather have better funding for police forces to tackle actual crime in general (instead of throwing it on rainbow cars and chasing down women for ribbons and stickers).

I'm a multi-issue person. The Tories may know what a woman is but their current record on human rights and corruption means I cannot vote for them.

@Pinklimey it you CAN vote for someone who puts men in women’s spaces?

Not on your bloody nelly. As I said, the only party in my area that has said it knows what a woman is is the Tories. Although not my actual MP who wrote me a lovely letter about how much he was looking forwards to putting men in women's spaces.

Shedcity

Didn’t the tories vote against making misogyny a hate crime
and against a register for stalkers and domestic abusers
tory mps are also getting away with harassing women
and they have repeatedly been racist and generally disgusting to most groups, particularly those (including women) from
poorer backgrounds

If you vote Tory you are absolutely not helping women. At least be honest with yourself

Exactly.

• The Tories are in power NOW. They're doing zero about womens' rights. Men are still in womens' prisons, etc. They're not doing anything about that either. Amongst many other things.

Laughable to try to pretend coming at this from a feminism stance. I find this type of 'feminism' abhorrent - all about supporting shitty men as long as they say 1 right thing, with no evidence whatsoever that theyll follow through with action.

Corruption is attractive to some people so the order of chaos suits them down to the ground

Spoiled my ballot last time. Very pleased to see an SDP candidate in our ward this time round so have just put my x in that box. Thanks for alerting me to them fellow vipers