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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues

264 replies

DameHelena · 04/05/2022 13:59

I am REALLY struggling to see who I can vote for tomorrow, due to their position on this issue.
Labour: no
Lib Dems: no
Green: no
Very much would like not to vote Tory (am historically Labour and/or Green and tend to go Green in local elections).
We have a Womens Equality Party candidate, but I can't find their official stance on women's sex-based rights. Does anyone have any knowledge? And how are you voting if you're in the same position as me?

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TaysideTeuchter · 06/05/2022 19:13

Belafonte · 06/05/2022 17:30

Also, why do these people always claim that women just come up to them and compliment them on their looks?!!

Aye, I smell shite when I hear them say that. Are they constantly running into ‘pick me‘ women in the toilets? 🤔

BlackForestCake · 06/05/2022 19:15

Sturgeon had time to congratulate Elaine Gallagher, who was standing for a different party, but has still not said a word about the death threats to Joanna Cherry.

Lovelyricepudding · 06/05/2022 19:18

Also, why do these people always claim that women just come up to them and compliment them on their looks?!!

It is like that story book 'Brenda the wolf' or similar name which indoctrinated preschoolers with the fact that sheep must be nice to the Wolf in order to avoid being eaten.

Lovelyricepudding · 06/05/2022 19:22

Fifteentoes so you would agree that the lib dems should not have voted against the electoral commissions recommendations when they were in coalition, because they didn't win the referendum on proportional representation. If they had voted through the electoral commissions recommendations then, then this bill would not have happened.

FOJN · 06/05/2022 19:30

Floisme · 06/05/2022 17:19

As I keep saying, the left can have my vote back whenever they choose. All they have to do is reassure me that they will uphold my legal rights.

Absolutely but until then this "racist", "ridiculous", "gullible", "fascist" (I'm sure I've missed some) may have to vote Tory for the first time in her life.

I do not believe they are pro women's rights but they are the only party not proposing to change the law to actively dismantle the protection provided by the EA 2010 and that matters for every woman.

There were no local elections here yesterday but we have a by election coming up and as soon as I know who the candidates are I will be asking them about their position on single sex spaces and vote accordingly.

OvaHere · 06/05/2022 19:31

Fifteentoes · 06/05/2022 17:36

@OvaHere

A projection of general election outcome based on local election results is pretty meaningless though, for obvious reasons.

Yes I think it probably is. A lot of people would vote differently in a GE.

Rainbowshit · 06/05/2022 19:59

Belafonte · 06/05/2022 17:29

This is Mhairi Hunter's replacement

www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-election-candidate-aims-citys-23844135

Another male born person who doesn't think women should have their own spaces. It's depressing that people voted for someone with those beliefs, but we should welcome the fact that Elaine will open the eyes of even more people to this awful ideology.

😂😂😂😂 that's just perfect. Mhairi had to make way for a male with special gender feels. Wonder if she regrets all the trans adulation.

Fifteentoes · 06/05/2022 20:12

BlackForestCake · 06/05/2022 19:11

Low turnout is generally A Bad Thing, but it might make the number of spoiled ballots more significant. Is it legal to disclose what was written on them?

Nobody records what is written on them. If they did it would make for a very entertaining compilation one day. 😀

Peregrina · 06/05/2022 20:16

Male toilets may well not be safe for self ID transwomen but why should women have to be the ones to give way? I wonder if EG will be making attempts to get proper mixed sex loos installed i.e completely enclosed with a washbasin and clearly labelled as mixed sex?

Peregrina · 06/05/2022 20:21

Nobody does record what is on the spoilt ballots, but the parties do notice. You do of course get the usual, 'they are all wankers' and drawings of penises. So a co-ordinated campaign of 'respect my sex if you want my x', would be seen by the candidates, their agents and the returning officer - so potentially a number of people. The battle now is to get the parties to realise that sex is determined before birth and cannot be changed.

SpindleInTheWind · 06/05/2022 20:29

Yes, Elaine, let's try to understand the structural reasons why males as a sex class are unsafe shall we?

Clangyleg · 06/05/2022 20:34

Just looked at the Leeds results. Very poor turnout in most wards. An average of about 25- 30 spoiled votes some as many as 42 and others only 15. So not as many as I hoped, but quite a lot where there were only totals of 3000 votes cast

Fifteentoes · 06/05/2022 20:46

Lovelyricepudding · 06/05/2022 19:22

Fifteentoes so you would agree that the lib dems should not have voted against the electoral commissions recommendations when they were in coalition, because they didn't win the referendum on proportional representation. If they had voted through the electoral commissions recommendations then, then this bill would not have happened.

I must admit I don't know anything about that. How would passing of the electoral commission's recommendations then have stopped the government now from abusing its majority now to remove it's independence?

Artichokeleaves · 06/05/2022 21:33

Male toilets may well not be safe for self ID transwomen

Oh Elaine.

NAMALT. It's very naughty to assume that some poor male intends anything towards you until after you've been harmed by them and have absolute evidence. The fact that whether or not they harm you is entirely in their gift is no reason (apparently) for you to justify not wanting to make yourself vulnerable in the presence of total strangers who are male.

And you can't possibly know they're male, after all, no one's done a genital check or checked their chromosomes.

And if one does decide to harm you then you can always call the police and use the justice system. That'll make it all better.

You need to unlearn your bigotry and reframe your trauma, and - what's that line from Mermaids last week? Something about irrational fears are no excuse.

Females are told all this terrible, insensitive, cruel stuff constantly when they try to explain any feelings (and bitter experience, and evidence) about where and in what circumstances they feel safe to pee. So sauce for the goose and all that.

NitroNine · 07/05/2022 09:20

It’s shocking how many refused to respond, isn’t it @RaininginDarling ? I mean, if you’re going to sign away the rights of the people you represent, they deserve to know.

One of the billboards was graffitied earlier in the week & the police are investigating it as a hate crime. (Though that might be about the ACAB part of the graffiti 😉) Given where it was there should be CCTV coverage, so I hope whoever did it gets caught. (Am only too aware of issues with PSNI & its predecessor; but “ACAB” is simply mindless scrawl - & if anything I think detracts from the incredibly serious issues both past & present.)

I’ve to admit I’ve wondered if Stormont exploited said “complicated relationship with democracy” to get away with not making provision for abortion after being told they had to. Not some kind of mad conspiracy; “just” in the sense they knew Westminster wouldn’t intervene for fear of accusations of trying to impose Direct Rule - & even now Lewis is moving at a glacial pace.

I mean, it’s probably easier for politicians to focus on “oppressed & vulnerable” people who are, in fact, just identifying as such. Because fixing the issues of the people whose oppression & vulnerability is an inescapable material reality takes an enormous amount of resources. And it’s not as if Northern Ireland has anything much going on, after all 🙄

I’m not a one for the podcasts (too many to try to sift through & decide which I most want to listen to…) but will - this once 😉 - look that one up when I’ve some time.

theemperorhasnoclothes · 07/05/2022 09:53

Artichokeleaves · 06/05/2022 21:33

Male toilets may well not be safe for self ID transwomen

Oh Elaine.

NAMALT. It's very naughty to assume that some poor male intends anything towards you until after you've been harmed by them and have absolute evidence. The fact that whether or not they harm you is entirely in their gift is no reason (apparently) for you to justify not wanting to make yourself vulnerable in the presence of total strangers who are male.

And you can't possibly know they're male, after all, no one's done a genital check or checked their chromosomes.

And if one does decide to harm you then you can always call the police and use the justice system. That'll make it all better.

You need to unlearn your bigotry and reframe your trauma, and - what's that line from Mermaids last week? Something about irrational fears are no excuse.

Females are told all this terrible, insensitive, cruel stuff constantly when they try to explain any feelings (and bitter experience, and evidence) about where and in what circumstances they feel safe to pee. So sauce for the goose and all that.

Well yes, if transwomen wanted the real female experience the easiest way to achieve that would be to pee in the mens and have their wants, needs and safety totally disregarded. That's what's happening to the entire population of females right now (with a little bit of push back from a few sensible people).

Coatandhat · 07/05/2022 09:54

Had to Google ACAB. Thought it was yet another new made up gender assigned at birth 😂

ScreamingMeMe · 07/05/2022 10:22

Well, a Welsh journalist has noticed the spoiled ballots. And here's JKR being fabulous again.

Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues
Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues
SmiledWtherisingsun · 07/05/2022 10:29

ScreamingMeMe · 07/05/2022 10:22

Well, a Welsh journalist has noticed the spoiled ballots. And here's JKR being fabulous again.

🙌🙌🙌

DomesticatedZombie · 07/05/2022 10:38

Clangyleg · 06/05/2022 20:34

Just looked at the Leeds results. Very poor turnout in most wards. An average of about 25- 30 spoiled votes some as many as 42 and others only 15. So not as many as I hoped, but quite a lot where there were only totals of 3000 votes cast

Roughly same numbers where I am - spoiled votes about 30, out of 3000 votes.

Yes, not all will be 'respect my sex' but I'm hoping there will be enough for it to register.

I would think anything above 3 will make an impact.

Spoiling my vote is not something I've ever even considered before, it took a lot of consideration to get to that point and I wasn't happy about doing so - I hope it sends at least a small message.

Fifteentoes · 07/05/2022 13:08

DomesticatedZombie · 07/05/2022 10:38

Roughly same numbers where I am - spoiled votes about 30, out of 3000 votes.

Yes, not all will be 'respect my sex' but I'm hoping there will be enough for it to register.

I would think anything above 3 will make an impact.

Spoiling my vote is not something I've ever even considered before, it took a lot of consideration to get to that point and I wasn't happy about doing so - I hope it sends at least a small message.

I suppose one way to look at this is what would the effect be if it were a new small party.

If a party formed espousing centre-left politics similar to Labour's but with an insistance on sex-based rights and biological definition of women as their central policy, and got 1% of the vote in a local election, do you think either of the main parties would care, or change their policies in response?

I suspect not. Such things happen all the time. They seem important to the people in them (in this case, us) but to the large parties whose very role is to ride out such small bumps in public opinion and form a large, broad-brush consensus wide enough to get a majority of the country behind them, they're just a blip. Part of doing business.

Tanith · 07/05/2022 14:00

But what has actually been achieved by not voting?

The biggest gains have been for the Lib Dems. The Greens have also gained more new councillors than Labour.

DomesticatedZombie · 07/05/2022 15:10

Yes, it will be a blip. But it will be a minority of people concerned who will 1/ vote and 2/ go as far as to spoil their vote.

So if I were a politician, it would at least register. Yes, a blip, but a louder blip than one lost vote moving silently from SNP to Tory. They could never be sure why they'd lost that one vote, but they can be pretty sure of the reason I've spoiled my ballot.

MarshaBradyo · 07/05/2022 15:58

I think it’s reaching some of them but not Labour.

Although you could see that Starmer has modified his language recently to try and fudge it, so probably does know it’s an issue but not enough to change direction for whatever reason.

NitroNine · 07/05/2022 19:01

But @Tanith (& anyone else who may need to hear it), (deliberately) spoiling your vote is not the same thing as not voting. The two should neither be confused nor conflated; & there are people (please note I am not accusing you of this!) who deliberately seek to do the latter to dissuade people from participating in a legitimate form of political protest.

In this specific instance, the Respect My Sex campaign was well-publicised before the election, so those ballots spoilt referencing that will have:
• told Tories that they can’t expect to simply scoop up the votes of all the people who’re concerned about this issue because they are somehow the only [large, GB-wide] Party willing to acknowledge there’s a real world & we’re living in it (the irony, oh, the irony)
• communicated to the rest of the omnishambles that people really do mean it about women’s rights being crucial when it comes to how they vote
Candidates (& their agents) see all the spoilt ballots, as per this guidance on how to spoil your ballot so yes, they are all aware of how many, if any, in their Ward were spoilt with “respect my sex” (or similar).

That votes had been spoiled this way was mentioned on Twitter by a journalist who was at a count in Cardiff, which is only going to increase the amount of discussion it gets. It’s just another wee weight to stack, together with the EHRC’s new guidance & the Cass Review, on the scales of Justice that are in such desperate need of rebalancing.

Vote-spoiling is literally for signalling you feel disenfranchised. That you wish to participate in the democratic process but nobody is representing you[r interests]. We do not owe our votes to a least-worst candidate. For many of us in England, it’s impossible to vote Tory: I mean, maybe Central Government would stop brutally punishing my Council if it went Blue, but probably not. And if Tory Councillors are as fond of disabled people as Tory MPs are… 😶 I don’t think all people who vote Tory are terrible humans - I know for a fact they’re not. But I couldn’t vote for a Party who willingly visit so much misery on the truly vulnerable.

The Parties would all happily force me to accept intimate care from a male person who simply says they “identify as” a woman. (If you think you can just request someone else, bless you & your adorable ignorance of how social care works [in practice]). They don’t think “woman” is anything other than an abstract concept; & they will do immeasurable harm should they be able to be able to create legislation that sets in stone the tenets of Gender Woo. People may not like that the UK has an established religion, but it does; & it’s the Church of England, not the Church of Gender Woo. The latter is still very much in the heretic-burning phase thankfully keeping it metaphorical & I really really do not want it digging in with a new set of Test Acts (targeting all recusants I hasten to add, no reason Catholics should have all the fun this time around) & resurrecting other recusancy punishments.