Page 4 | Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues

DameHelena · 2022-05-04T12:59:02+00:00

I am REALLY struggling to see who I can vote for tomorrow, due to their position on this issue. Labour: no Lib Dems: no Green: no Very much would like not to vote Tory (am historically Labour and/or Green and tend to go Green in local elections). We have a Womens Equality Party candidate, but I can't find their official stance on women's sex-based rights. Does anyone have any knowledge? And how are you voting if you're in the same position as me?

NoviceNetwork · 05/05/2022 08:51

I’m about to go and vote Tory for the first time.

I actually had a knock at the door last night and had a good chat with our local Tory candidate. He was actually knowledgeable about the potential problems of ‘gender neutral’ facilities and clashes of rights, and seemed very firmly on the side of biological reality.

It was refreshing that he didn’t condescend or act horrified that I have never voted Tory before (I told him) and he was respectful even over things we disagreed with.

It was a shocking contrast to the Labour candidate who couldn’t get away quick enough.

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 08:54

KylieKoKo · 04/05/2022 15:55

The leader of the Tory party is on record say that Muslim women look like letterboxes and that black people have lower IQs.

If you want to vote to help women then know that your Tory vote doesn't help all women. That might or might not be a deal breaker for you depending on where you stand on racism.

Boris isn't the whole Tory party.

The Tory party also has far better representation of both women and women of colour within the party. So it's far from clearcut.

I say this as someone who has never (yet) voted Tory, but may do today because it's the least worst choice out of a very difficult situation.

ImAvingOops · 05/05/2022 08:54

In my area I only have a choice of Lib Dem or Tory

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 08:58

NitroNine · 05/05/2022 02:52

I imagine that suffrage campaigners would be far more concerned with the fact so many women feel they lack adequate representation over 100 years after the first women in the UK gained the right to vote; Constance Markievicz was elected; & Nancy Astor was elected & took her seat. We’re just over 6 years away from the centenary of the Equal Franchise Act (it was passed in July) too.

Spoiling one’s ballot is making use of one’s vote. It’s not something that should be done lightly, obviously, but you’re not obliged to choose the least-worst candidate Because The Suffragettes or any other reason. The point was to be able to freely & fully participate in the democratic process - voting for a candidate simply to have voted for someone isn’t a responsible use of your vote. Spoiling your ballot (there’s information available here about doing so) is a form of [political] protest & it should not be confused with not voting.

It really is so tiresomely sexist that people try to browbeat women into political participation by invoking suffrage campaigners. Actually, when people do this it always seems to be the suffragettes they mention, which is of course not without irony, but that’s not really the point… Nobody makes similar demands of men in the name of the Chartists or the Reform League - apparently we’re somehow still stuck in a world where the vote belongs to men as a part of the natural order; & women must be eternally grateful the franchise has been extended to them.

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Oh my word, thank you! You've just relieved me of a burden I ddin't even realise I was carrying!

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 09:00

Live4weekend · 04/05/2022 22:52

I have a dilemma too!

Local Councillor (Tory) is pretty decent. BUT how can anyone decent represent the current Tory party. So its a no. Even though I have swallowed my dislike for the Tory party before and voted for him due to him being good and active locally.

Green candidate - I know. He is a decent guy and active in local community. Would be a good Councillor and fight for local area. But hate the party nationally and their abhorrent attitude to woman.

Labour- don't know much about candidate but they are my party of choice.

Libs - it's a no as they are too far gone with the removal of women's rights

If you're talking E&W Greens, there are lots of good hardworking feminists in that party that are doing their best to keep women's rights on the agenda. Don't give up on them!

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 09:11

Floisme, thank you, I think after all I will join you in spoiling my vote.

Or it's Tory ...

Jesus wept the dithering.

MagpiePi · 05/05/2022 09:11

Traditionally I am a Labour voter but have also flirted with the Lib Dems, when Nick Clegg was first around, and Greens for local elections. This year, I'm voting SDP in the local mayoral election, but will spoil my ballot paper for the council elections as the only choices are Tory, Lib Dem, Labour or Greens.

Here is the SDP's policy on sex and trans issues. Pretty clear IMO https://sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

MarshaBradyo · 05/05/2022 09:12

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 08:33

This is extremely offensive, as well as off the mark. Here's why:

'gullible women'? How many people on here sound to you as if they really believe the Tories? There's a big discussion about the Tory effect on women more generally and an acknowledgement that sometimes voting is about sending a message.
You suggest that people are dissembling about their reasons for voting Tory and that they actually 'want to' . Why are you disbelieving/second-guessing what people – women – are telling you? How fucking arrogant.

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Agree entirely with you. Arrogance and low understanding.

Whereareyourshoes · 05/05/2022 09:12

Left wing third sector worker here voting for tory candidates plus one local Lib Dem councillor who works hard for the community. Not voting for any other Lib Dems, Scottish Greens or SNP due to them actively campaigning against women’s rights. Our current council is fully stonewalled so I would like some balance.

Original poster

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 09:21

MagpiePi · 05/05/2022 09:11

Traditionally I am a Labour voter but have also flirted with the Lib Dems, when Nick Clegg was first around, and Greens for local elections. This year, I'm voting SDP in the local mayoral election, but will spoil my ballot paper for the council elections as the only choices are Tory, Lib Dem, Labour or Greens.

Here is the SDP's policy on sex and trans issues. Pretty clear IMO https://sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Wish I had SDP candidates to vote for

OP posts:

Tinabn · 05/05/2022 09:22

I despair, everything you are using to justify voting Tory came about under a Tory government. They have screwed the country, are impacting the standard of living of the majority, running down the NHS so they can justify selling it to their friends, underfunding education and doing a good job of breaking up the United Kingdom. I am old enough to have seen the fight for equality so I don’t take any attack on the rights of women lightly but we are being lead by a group of incompetent one trick ponies, only there because they were prepared to lie about Brexit when the only ones who were going to benefit were the maga rich with offshore accounts, we have to get rid of them.
I also have a friend staying from America, she campaigned for abortion rights in the 1970s, talk to her about the rights of women when the far right are in control of the legal process and consider the Bills passed through Parliament last week.
if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.

Original poster

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 09:27

Tinabn · 05/05/2022 09:22

I despair, everything you are using to justify voting Tory came about under a Tory government. They have screwed the country, are impacting the standard of living of the majority, running down the NHS so they can justify selling it to their friends, underfunding education and doing a good job of breaking up the United Kingdom. I am old enough to have seen the fight for equality so I don’t take any attack on the rights of women lightly but we are being lead by a group of incompetent one trick ponies, only there because they were prepared to lie about Brexit when the only ones who were going to benefit were the maga rich with offshore accounts, we have to get rid of them.
I also have a friend staying from America, she campaigned for abortion rights in the 1970s, talk to her about the rights of women when the far right are in control of the legal process and consider the Bills passed through Parliament last week.
if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.

You as well?
You are either failing to comprehend people's posts properly or you are deliberately misunderstanding in order to be obnoxious.
People on here KNOW what the Tories are. The whole point is that on this one – vital – issue, the Tories (whether they mean it or not) are the only major party who have publicly defined correctly what a woman is and said they support our sex-based rights.
I won't waste my time repeating more of what I and others have said about our reasons for contemplating voting this way; they're all on here.

As for 'if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.', how dare you. How dare you try to second-guess what people are telling you. It is particularly ironic given that we're talking here about women being believed/listened to/respected.

OP posts:

RogersOrganismicProcess · 05/05/2022 09:39

Spoiled my vote for the first time ever. I’ve felt politically homeless before, but managed to go for the least worst option. This time around the least worst option still felt like betrayal of our sex. I hope the reasons for spoiled ballots get passed on. Feels like a silver bullet moment.

dollybird · 05/05/2022 09:40

I have voted for our local independent, who has been in place for 4-5 years now. We have a few independents in our local area and they, plus one Tory councillor, are the only defence against an overdevelopment obsessed majority Lib Dem council. I don't know what her views are on gender etc, but for this election I am voting firmly with local issues in mind. Come the next general election, I will definitely be voting for protection of women's rights (our local MP is Tory with a healthy majority, but not a Tory stronghold, we had a Lib Dem for many years).

octopusdweller · 05/05/2022 09:56

if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist

The move from sex to gender has, here and across the world, and will continue, to lead to women and girls being sexually assaulted and sexually intimidated, to women being unable to safely access survivor's services and having to self-exclude, to women being disbelieved about rape as their offender identified as a woman, to women having to shower alongside men, to women prisoners being threatened with punishment for attempting to assert boundaries, to women being unable to win in sports they have trained their whole life for, to women and girls being shamed for trying to assert the most basic boundaries around their own bodies.

If these really fundamental rights are not a feminist issue then then I genuinely don't actually understand what you think you mean by feminism.

Lovelyricepudding · 05/05/2022 09:57

I am voting Tory because I want to. I hardly think they have a monopoly on sleaze especially when you consider local government - just look at Labour''s corrupt behaviour in Liverpool. My local labour candidate is awful too especially on equality (and I don't just mean sex equality) and they have recent history of antisemitism. It was labour who passed the GRA that left us in this mess. And labour who left the NHS with PFI debts. But I am in Scotland and the SNP have been proving whatever Tories can do to ruin the NHS or education they can do better. So I am considering my local candidates and I will not vote for one who is not prepared to recognise women are discriminated against because of their sex. If they refuse to listen to women on this topic but instead blindly follow an ideology, how can I trust them to listen to local people on any topic?

dollybird · 05/05/2022 09:58

octopusdweller · 05/05/2022 09:56

if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist

The move from sex to gender has, here and across the world, and will continue, to lead to women and girls being sexually assaulted and sexually intimidated, to women being unable to safely access survivor's services and having to self-exclude, to women being disbelieved about rape as their offender identified as a woman, to women having to shower alongside men, to women prisoners being threatened with punishment for attempting to assert boundaries, to women being unable to win in sports they have trained their whole life for, to women and girls being shamed for trying to assert the most basic boundaries around their own bodies.

If these really fundamental rights are not a feminist issue then then I genuinely don't actually understand what you think you mean by feminism.

Hear hear!

MarshaBradyo · 05/05/2022 09:58

if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist

why anyone thinks they can tell others what they are is unbelievable.

these types of posts are always from the Labour supporters / left

we all get one vote and can use it according to issues we find important

Terz · 05/05/2022 10:07

For anyone who is choosing to spoil their ballot paper please be careful how you do it! Guidance is available here votingcounts.org.uk/spoilt-ballot

i agree with others who have said to write “Respect my sex” but maybe write it diagonally across all candidate names?

BlackLambAndGreyFalcon · 05/05/2022 10:15

I have voted. I don't think I've ever felt quite so disenfranchised in my life. I was very very tempted to spoil my ballot, but then I decided that in the end for me personally, I had to express my views on the local council formation by voting for someone (totally understand why others would spoil their ballot papers though!)

I am not completely ideologically opposed to the the Conservatives (this issue aside) and I have voted for them in the past, although not since the Brexit vote. And to be honest if it hadn't been for partygate and this abysmal Rwandan policy I would have voted for all three tory candidates (I could vote for up to three candidates). But although these are local elections and people should be voting on local issues, I did not want my conservative vote to be taken as an expression of support for the national government (which they will totally do if the results are good for the conservatives.

My current ward is three councillors - two labour and one tory. I only voted for one candidate - the current tory councillor and it was very much a vote for him personally rather than his party. Reasons are:

He's a decent chap. Long-standing councillor who does a lot for this area.
Very supportive of female sexed-based rights.
Against the Silvertown tunnel (I live near the route)
The council as a whole is quite strongly Labour held and this is not in doubt to still be the status quo after the election. The conservatives are the only opposition to Labour on the council (no other parties currently have councillors). The neighbouring borough has a one-party council where every single one of the councillors is Labour (probably will still be the same after this election). I think that regardless of party politics that this is bad for democracy and that councils work better where there is at least some opposition to the main party.

I couldn't do a complete vote for the conservatives due to the national issues, but I compromised for voting for this one candidate. My other options were Labour (no), Greens (no), Lib Dems (no), Communists (no) and Loony (which I was tempted to as a protest vote as the candidate was also strongly pro woman and anti tunnel, but then he described Zelensky as a nazi... so no!)

oldwomanwhoruns · 05/05/2022 10:43

As said upthread, it was Labour who brought in the GRA. (Gender recognition act) which put into law the fiction that men can be women.

And it was Tony Blair (Labour) who took the country into the Iraq war. No crime is greater, to my mind, than taking the country to war for no good reason.

And it's not the Conservative councils who are painting the stupid rainbow crossings.

Just saying...

KylieKoKo · 05/05/2022 10:44

Why do posters think the Tories will protect single sex spaces? They have been in power since 2010 so surely most the responsibility for erosion of them and their replacement with mixed sex spaces lies with them.

If they "know what a woman is' as you put in then why is it that all this gender based stuff is happening under them?

BootsAndRoots · 05/05/2022 10:51

I will be voting based on local issues, and fortunately my council has not signed up to the Stonewall scheme (the neighbouring one has and that has meant gender issues coming into the fore in that area).

So the gender debate is not happening locally as it appears it is only happening where Stonewall have influence. If my council were part of Stonewall's scheme then that would be something I would be asking local candidates about.

5zeds · 05/05/2022 10:52

If you want to vote to help women then know that your Tory vote doesn't help all women.
Muslim and other segregating faiths will be massively impacted by the mixed sex spaces caused by TWAW. They will not be able to use a toilet or participate in sports and forced to stay more within their own community and closer to home. A vote for a party that can see sex is very much a vote for marginalised women.

BootsAndRoots · 05/05/2022 10:55

KylieKoKo · 05/05/2022 10:44

Why do posters think the Tories will protect single sex spaces? They have been in power since 2010 so surely most the responsibility for erosion of them and their replacement with mixed sex spaces lies with them.

If they "know what a woman is' as you put in then why is it that all this gender based stuff is happening under them?

Really it's the civil service. Just look at the furore over the Conversion Therapy. Civil servants put pressure on government ministers to introduce it (many civil servants are representatives of Stonewall), and they're the ones who draft the laws and leak stuff when it's not going their way.

We're seeing a lot of issues where civil servants don't want to do what the minister (and consequently majority of public) have requested.