Anyone else left wing and gender critical?

[Kendodd]

I'm to the left politically.
Support BLM and was at anti apartheid demos even back in the 80s
Fully support gay rights and again, have marched in the street for them from back in the 80s.
Strong feminist, attend feminist meetings.
Support refugees.
Very anti Brexit.
Feel ashamed of the levels of poverty in the UK.

I'm also gender critical and although I do support trans rights, in that, wear what you want, TWANW and have different needs and don't belong in women's sports, prisons etc. When I look around and see who I'm standing with on this though, I feel really uncomfortable.

When it comes to voting, no way would I vote for someone with Farage like views just because they were anti self ID.
Anyone else with similar views?

[NashvilleQueen]

I agree with your political beliefs. I'm also GC.

I think that TRAs are using words like fascist and reactionary to make us question our opinion. Right at the start of all of this I remember saying to a friend that I couldn't understand how I had come to be on the 'wrong' side of this argument having always been so right on!

In fact as things have developed I think we have the liberal progressive view and theirs is the reactionary one. The idea that it you want to look more androgynous or masculine as a woman that your are, in fact, in the wrong body. That women are reduced to tits, big hair and make up. It's just really weird finding myself nodding at the Daily Mail sometimes.

[MarshaBradyo]

I also think the use of ‘far right’ in this context (and a few others) has become a way to shut down discussion.

So many GC posters are obviously no where near far right on these boards, it’s a very strange claim.

I’ve had it used against me by a somewhat stuck pp but they misunderstand generally and try to close discussion

I’m a strong remainer (although have moved on so don’t post about Brexit too much) didn’t want Trump to win but look to state spending as a gauge. Probably more central than others posting but the term far right gets bandied about like confetti.

[NashvilleQueen]

I'm voting Labour btw. I think they're wrong on trans rights but I think everything is wrong about the Tories and they're doing such harm to the most vulnerable. I'll never vote for them.

[Whybot]

There s a lot of us, mostly over a certain age , or got siblings who are identifying as trans.

[NecessaryScene]

Is the problem here a misunderstanding of the term "gender critical"?

That's specifically about over-emphasis on "gender", with it being a construct that oppresses based on sex. Prior to this fight, people like Maya were involved with campaigns like "Let Toys Be Toys" - fighting against pink/blue-ification of children's stuff. That's "gender critical".

So naturally gender-critical feminists are against gender-identity ideology.

But simply being against gender-identity ideology isn't sufficient to make you gender critical.

Lots of right wingers are against gender-identity ideology, and wouldn't have a problem with pink/blue coding of toys per sex, so are not gender critical.

I think the gender critical pushback against this stuff in the UK has been so successful that for some it's ending up as the "generic" name for any sort of pushback. But it ends up misapplied, like "TERF" - many of whom are not remotely radical feminists.

[NecessaryScene]

Oh, forgot my pic. This was on the sidebar of Reddit's r/GenderCritical for a while. Not sure I'd 100% agree with it, but I think it's somewhat useful.

Found it on this older Mumsnet thread on a similar topic: Gender critical or Gender reactionary?

[bellinisurge]

Absolutely 100%. This "it's only right wing Stepford wives" nonsense doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As with all TRA drivel, the slightest contact with sunlight exposes it as cultish bullshit

[MrsJorahMormont]

@georgarina

Left wing and GC
There's no contradiction between my left wing beliefs and my belief in preserving women's identity, rights and protections - they are one and the same

This. Exactly this.

[Fairislefandango]

Yup, left of centre and gc here too. I don't recognise your description of MN gc posters as right wing at all, OP.

'Slagging off the woke' these days doesn't mean you're right wing, because the 'wokeness' people are slagging off is in fact usually misogynist, homophobic, racist or empty virtue-signalling. Many of the woke have become what they claim to despise - i.e. bigots.

[NecessaryScene]

To liven this up a little, is anyone here "right-wing and gender-critical"? Got to be someone, right?

Question does seem like it's pointed at the wrong forum - asking it on Mumsnet's FWR is a bit like going to a vegan site and saying "does anyone else here not eat eggs?". Not sure where it should be posted to be honest.

Maybe somewhere in the US might make more sense, where the left-wing opposition is far more brutally oppressed and it might make more sense to think it doesn't exist?

[Iknowitisheresomewhere]

For a while now we have had to get used to Labour politicians saying TWAW and that Labour would support self-id.
Recently many Tory politicians have come out saying biological sex is important.

I think slightly more Tory supporters that Labour supporters would be prepared to say ‘sex is important and immutable’ at this moment in time. BUT I feel that for both parties, if questions are asked in a way that people can’t blink the issues, a large majority of Labour and Tory supporters are against self ID.

So I really don’t think the issue is a left wing/right wing one in the way that (say) taxation, benefits, education might be. But I can’t understand the failure of many many politicians, more of them left wing, to address the issues with any intellectual rigour.

[jessycake]

Yes me too

[mrshoho]

I don't get that feel of 'far right' leaning on these feminism boards you describe. The opposite if anything generally. But it is not a left or right belief and I get what you mean about finding yourself shoulder to shoulder with people who ordinarily would have not have much in common.

The diagram upthread is good in simple terms. This issue does unite many who are polar opposites in many other areas.

[BraveBananaBadge]

Left wing, will never vote Tory.
As pp have said, calling GC views 'far right' seems like a tactic to shut down opponents to me - like the 'funded by the Christian Right' nonsense.

But unlike others I don't blame OP for asking! It works. I let it cloud my thinking for too long. This idea of being wedded to all the beliefs of anyone we wouldn't normally because they talk sense on this issue is very stupid when you think about it.

[DuckDuckNo]

Anyone else left wing and gender critical?

Only most of us.
The idea that GC people are right wing/conservative is a TRA talking point.

[TheElementsSong]

I'm another old hand from the Westministenders threads, OP. I'm left-of-centre, atheist, gender critical, socially liberal and politically homeless.

I spoiled my ballot this time (postal vote so already done).

[ChopinBoard]

I think Elon Musk has it about right (attached).

I think one of the reasons that so many on the left seem to accept the twaw narrative is the kind of tribalism displayed in the op. If right is bad (it's not) and left is good (it's not) then lefty people should accept the lefty position (in this case twaw). Ime the cognitive dissonance comes in when you realise your tribe has it wrong, and you start wondering what else they (and therefore you) have wrong.

I used to outsource a lot of my thinking to my tribe. This issue has taught me not to. I don't really think it's that helpful to package up a load of ideas about different topics and assert membership to a group which believes all the same things. Much better to think critically and form my own opinions.

As for being critical of BLM and XR, that doesn't make someone right wing (although many on the right will have their concerns). Suggesting otherwise looks to me like the same kind of tribal thinking that has led so many lefties to uncritically accept twaw because it's part of the lefty package of ideas. We need to move past this*

*I know that doesn't help with who to vote for!

[SpiderVersed]

I don’t know how anyone could read FWR and think we’re anything other than predominantly left wing.

[Floisme]

I agree with ChopinBoard's post. Tribal thinking has a lot to answer for and I'm also not the least bit interested in dissecting whether or not gender critical beliefs belong on the 'one true left'. As far as I'm concerned, neither the left nor the right can be trusted with women's rights.

[Sexnotgender]

@SpiderVersed

I don’t know how anyone could read FWR and think we’re anything other than predominantly left wing.

Exactly. It’s almost like no critical thought has been applied.

The post above by @ChopinBoard is spot on.

Particularly the bit about outsourcing your thinking.

[Sexnotgender]

@Floisme

I agree with ChopinBoard's post. Tribal thinking has a lot to answer for and I'm also not the least bit interested in dissecting whether or not gender critical beliefs belong on the 'one true left'. As far as I'm concerned, neither the left nor the right can be trusted with women's rights.

100%

This isn’t a left vs right issue.

If you think either side of the political spectrum is protecting women’s rights you’re sadly mistaken.

[DomesticatedZombie]

So someone tell me - between the SNP and the Tories - who do I choose? Talk about devil and the deep blue C ...

[Kendodd]

I've only read the first page so forgive me if the threads moved on a lot, I will go back and read.
Feminism generally is in itself left wing, it rejects traditional values. With regard to who to vote for, I haven't voted Labour since the Iraq war, that's probably ready to change, I'd vote for anyone to get the Tories out (almost). I've also written to all the other parties about self ID and womens rights twice now.

What I don't get is how come the Tories get a completely free pass over all this shit. It was boris Johnson who reduced the free for a GRC to £5, self ID was a Tory idea and it's the Tories who been in government while trans rights have flourished and Male bodies people have been put in female prisons and NHS hospitals.

[NotBadConsidering]

Knowing that humans cannot change sex should not be a left or right wing political position.

Knowing that males have advantage over females in sport should not be a left or right wing political position.

Knowing that males shouldn’t be locked up with females should not be a left or right wing political position.

Wanting children to have evidence-based treatment that does not leave them infertile and asexual for the rest of their lives should not be a left or right wing political position.

And so on. It’s like saying people who believe the Earth is an oblate spheroid are clearly going to be of a political persuasion 🙄. It’s nonsense. These are basic positions of common sense and humanity that have been turned into a political left vs right issue because it’s easy for activists to recruit to their cause; paint anyone who opposes their stance against reality and common sense as a “right wing bigot” and callow people who fear being seen as unkind jump on board.

It’s quite obvious to anyone paying attention that opposition to gender ideology is across the political spectrum, because anyone who isn’t an idiot, regardless of political affiliation, can see the denial of biological reality that goes with it.

In contrast to this breadth of opposition to the batshit nonsense, there is only a tiny bandwidth of the political spectrum that actually supports it, because they’re willing to let politics determine their view on reality for their own validation of their political position. And what does that tell you? That people are prepared to let their politics get in the way of seeing the realities of the affirmative treatment pathway for children, for example? It’s tells me that the Centre Left are sanctimonious fools at best. At worst, I can’t say what I really think.

[Kendodd]

I don’t know how anyone could read FWR and think we’re anything other than predominantly left wing.

I think it's all the posters, on multiple threads, saying they'll be voting Tory and that they're the only party who care about women's rights. Also, RW influence, Daily Mail, Express, right wing broadcasting. Although even the BBC only ever seem to ask politicians on the left the 'what is a woman 'question. Unless of course I'm missing them quizzing Tories on this.