Men in women's' prison article

[FatFucker]

Hope this is picked up by the National
Press!!

4w.pub/female-prisoners-forced-to-share-showers-with-intact-males/

Apologies for the random apostrophe in the title 🙄

Thank you for link.

Jesus...it's just more abuse heaped on top of abuse. There are days when I actually feel despair and I'm normally a pretty upbeat person.

I always find it so upsetting to read articles like this.

The fact we are supoosed to somehow be a " better/fairer" country. Supposedly better than other countries where women get stoned to death or whatever. But we aren't are we. We lock them uo to be raped , terrorised and sexually harasses and assulted by males who's unverifiable amd undefined feelings matter more than anything or anyone else.

Prison is meant to be the punishment. Not rape.

Does anyone know what 1/3 of women in the UK are actually in prison for?

It is for not paying their TV licence.

Just in case you were wondering.

"The officer told Linda and C that their “attitude” was “hateful and transphobic” and it would not be tolerated, as it was “against the rules.”

I'm pretty sure rape sexual attacks are "against the rules" too. Oh wait but it's only women ... as you were!!

It gives me the RAGE!

And yes it's terrible that one of the woman was in for non payment of TV Licence, but even if they were in there for killing their baby, they shouldn't be under the threat of rape!

I hope these women sue!!

Thanks for the link. I can't believe this is happening in the UK.

Apologies @AlisonDonut misread, thought you meant one of the three women in the article. Not one in three women of the general female prison population.

Now that's a thread in itself. Many years ago, I had a friend who was arrested in her home by 3 police officers in front of her kids for non-payment of TV licence. She had no idea! Her abusive partner had been hiding all the letters.

Yes, it's really important to emphasise that the vast majority of women are in prison for non violent reasons. Drug possession, petty theft, prostitution, tv license etc. Not to mention, many of these women are victims of abuse, human trafficking etc.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be there, but it means that the environment in women's prisons would be more akin to a low -secure mens unit.

Therefore putting a violent male offender into the population causes a huge change in the dynamics.

Important to note what Government this is happening under.

It's an absolute fucking joke that

1. men are being put into female prisons just because they say they are women.

2. female prisoners are forced to be naked around fully intact sex offenders.

3. there are people out there that think this is acceptable.

I cannot believe that women are expected to share shower facilities with men. In gods name how can the authorities not see that this is abuse?

That is incorrect. 1 in 1000 of the women in prison are there due to repeated nonpayment of the TV license.

What you are thinking of is the fact that 30% of criminal convictions of women are for nonpayment of a TV licence. The penalty is a fine, not prison.

Yes, if you don’t pay the fine and are a repeat offender, then you might end up in prison but this is very rare.

For example, in 2018 only 4 women were imprisoned out of 88,091 convictions of women for tv license fee evasion. All the sentences were for less than a year. The woman’s prison population is usually around 3,800. So, actually it’s not 30% of the women in prison are there for not paying their TV license, it’s 0.1%.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/criminal-justice-system-statistics-quarterly-december-2018

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/938360/statistics-on-women-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2019.pdf

The briefing states that most women in prison do not need to be there. In the year ending June 2021 there were 4,787 first receptions of women into prison, of which more than half were of women on remand. One in three was for a sentence of less than 12 months.
The APPG has called for the repeal of legislation that gives the courts the power to remand people in prison ‘for their own protection’. When this power is used, it is often due to a lack of appropriate mental health services in the community.
HMIP told the inquiry that, in August 2021, it had asked three women’s prisons for information about any individuals remanded in the previous 12 months who were so acutely mentally unwell that they should have been diverted from prison. The prisons identified 68 women; the outcome for most of these women was not known but, of those for whom the outcome was known, more than half were transferred to a secure hospital.

I was taken aback by some of those numbers in the recent APPG.

howardleague.org/news/appg-inquiry-uncovers-damaging-impact-of-imprisonment-on-womens-health-and-well-being/

The shower thing happened in New Jersey. And it’s very distressing.

The mixing reported in U.K. prisons by the former convicts has since been overcome due to the safety risk to female prisoners. MtF prisoners are now housed in separate wings from female prisoners.

I do also worry about FtM prisoners in the male prisons for their safety around male prisoners. As far as I know, there are no seperate wings for FtM prisoners and there are reports of rape.

Its not as simple as sending trans people to the prison corresponding to their sex as we used to do as it was found that they are at much higher risk for sexual assault and suicide when that is done.

I think housing trans prisoners with trans prisoners is the best solution for everyone’s safety and sanity. We don’t have the money to build trans only prisons. So wings on mens and womens prisons where they don’t mix is a good interim solution.

I’d prefer that existing woman’s prison be decommissioned and converted to a trans only prison. Too many women are being sent to prison for nonviolent offences anyway, so correcting that could mean freeing up a whole prison. Yes the prisoners would come from all over U.K. to one prison and likely be far away from family and friends so not much visiting, but I don’t see any way around that other than to use video calling technologies.

Are there cases of women to men being placed in male only prisons? My understanding was they are still housed in female prisons for their own safety but I could be wrong.

MtF prisoners are now housed in separate wings from female prisoners.

But why can't they be housed in separate wings in male prisons? There are more male prisons. Why is it always women who have to be the ones to adapt?

Its a womens prison. Not " anyone who might not ne safe in the mens" prison

Men in women's prisons is to me a whole different ballgame to most of the 'trans rights' issues.

e.g. it's eminently reasonable to assume that any man who's willing to take female hormones for a couple of years [and the rest] certainly isn't doing so in order to cheat his way into women's sport [though of course many, me included, would argue that this is largely irrelevant, & that there should be no place for TW in female sport].

e.g. it's eminently reasonable to assume that any near enough every trans woman who goes into a women's toilets is doing so simply to use the toilets.

But with convicted criminals, especially violent criminals, it to me almost makes sense for bad faith to be your starting point, your default assumption. It's a cliche but isn't it very common for prisoners to [e.g.] notionally switch to Islam behind bars so as to get better food? I'm continually astonished that this particular topic is even controversial.

@Discovereads can you point me to something that confirms (all?) trans women prisoners are being housed in separate prison wings, and are no longer mixing with women in women’s prisons? It may well be right but I can’t find anything to that effect and the Fair Play for Women website suggests their are still transwomen and men pretending to be women being housed alongside natal women. Thanks

e.g. it's eminently reasonable to assume that any man who's willing to take female hormones for a couple of years [and the rest] certainly isn't doing so in order to cheat his way into women's sport

Taking hormones doesn't turn a male into a female, so it is irrelevant.
There are men who have already won women's competitions without any drugs or surgery, but you think they wouldn't cheat? Really?

it's eminently reasonable to assume that any near enough every trans woman who goes into a women's toilets is doing so simply to use the toilets

Back when trans meant transexual maybe. Now that group includes cross dressers, transvestites, AGP's, men with beards who say they are women or 'non binary' etc etc. No drugs or surgery are required and only a tiny % of those men have their penis removed. They are demanding the removal of the legal exemptions that allow for females only spaces. They do not want women and girls having any boundaries from men.

Men are now getting free access to all spaces where women and children are at their most vulnerable under the guise of gender ideology. Anyone pointing out the fucking obvious is called a phobe and a bigot in a bid to shut them up.
That should be ringing alarm bells to everyone.

We can see behind the rainbows and glitter bullshit.

can you point me to something that confirms (all?) trans women prisoners are being housed in separate prison wings, and are no longer mixing with women in women’s prisons? It may well be right but I can’t find anything to that effect and the Fair Play for Women website suggests their are still transwomen and men pretending to be women being housed alongside natal women.

Indeed. I would ask the question, if all male to female trans prisoners are kept completely separate, how was it that Karen While (biological male) was able to sexually assault two female prisoners whilst in a women's prison? Surely that requires time and unsupervised access.

Also if it really was about safety, there are plenty of ways to segregate in existing men's prisons. Plenty of prisoners are kept separate for their own safety. In reality, it's not about safety at all, it's about validation.

No separate wing in Scotland .

insidetime.org/trans-prisoners-go-back-to-living-as-men-after-release/

MtF prisoners are now housed in separate wings from female prisoners.

Not true. I wish it was.

There is a separate wing at HMP Downview for trans identified males who are far too much of a risk to be accommodated with women prisoners. However other MtF prisoners elsewhere in the UK are in the same prison units as women.

I am one of those women quoted in the article and I am in touch with two others also quoted in the article.

Being forced to shower with a fully intact male - or choosing not to shower at all (which is deprivation of a basic health need) - happened in a women's prison in the UK.

I do agree that the solution is for separate units for MtF prisoners but I do not see why those units should be attached to women's prisons. They could just as easily be attached to men's prisons.

The current HMPS transgender policy already allows MtF prisoners - even if they are located in male prisons - to have in their possession the clothing, make up, wigs, etc, that they feel necessary to validate their feelings. Therefore the question has to be why do they need to be in women's prisons at all, especially as we know - even from the recent High Court judgment - that it is likely to cause women even more fear and anxiety.

I am now in the Women's Rights Network, working with others to try and dislodge this dreadful policy.

When you have women from both sides of the bars saying the same thing and raising the same concerns, that should be a powerful message but we are going to have to keep saying it over and over till it sinks in with those in a position to change things.

If anyone would like to help, please consider writing to your MP enclosing the link in the opening post and asking him or her their views. It would be a start.