I'm having an "are we the baddies" moment

[JakeyRolling]

Please talk me down.

Company has an internal newsletter/magazine which people can write for.

Colleague has written a piece about trans issues and it's like a bingo card - cis, terf, the trans suicide stat and the "intersex people are neither male or female" argument. Goes on to say we should let them pee in pieces (in womens spaces) because they're women and fear men as much as we do 🙄

Comments from other colleagues are full of praise for it.

I feel so out of step and wrong, despite knowing the arguments don't make sense.

It just feels like it would be easier to give in.

How would you, though? If I offered you a million pounds, would it make you believe people could change sex?

You don't think you are a baddie though. You are just worn down, you don't think they are right.

Please don't give in. You know that your belief is now protected.

are you actually questioning your own views, or fearful of expressing dissent openly at work?

The trick is not to care too much about being out of step with the current orthodoxy.

It sounds a bit odd to have an internal newsletter where colleagues can write about their personal beliefs. Do articles in it have relate to your work function at all?

What about your female Muslim colleagues who would be excluded from activities/sport/toilets if a male is accessing them? Muslim and Orthodox Jewish girls excluded from Girl Guides and sporting teams if a trans-identifying male wants to join.

What about women in prison, many of whom are survivors of sexual and domestic abuse, being locked up with make sex offenders? It’s happening in the U.K. right now.

Or that no trans people in the U.K. have been killed for 4 years (thank goodness) but women are murdered by men at more than one every three days… who’s the “most vulnerable” population in reality?

What about women fleeing domestic and sexual abuse - don’t they deserve to be in safe spaces away from male bodies?

Gay men and men with disabilities are also at higher risk of male violence, should women let them into our spaces too?

Transwomen are safer from violence as a demographic than both women and other man. The “trans are victims” is about as true as the mendacious suicide statistics.

In the U.K. prison population, over 40% of transwomen are in for sex offfences according to MOJ. This is vastly higher than the general male population of offenders. Either transwomen are more likely to be predators OR predators are more likely to claim a trans identity to access vulnerable women. (I suspect the latter)

It’s all well and good to talk about being kind when you aren’t looking at who loses out by that “kindness”.

I am thinking "am I wrong here? Am I just too ignorant to understand?"

I grew up in a very conservative household and used to hold views that I now know to be wrong (immigrants etc) simply because that's how I was raised.

It means I'm doubting myself big style, wondering if I only think this because it's also a conservative position (albeit they agree for different reasons)

Intersex if anything is proof of there being two sexes.
Trans suicide stats are overstated, relied on dodgy methodology, and does not stand up to scrutiny - any group using these tactics should be written off as coercive liars.

I know what you mean though, I have these moments occasionally, but remembering how autistic/abused/mentally ill girls are preyed on soon snaps me back to reality.
If that doesn’t work remembering trans widows and the number of AGP men there are wanting us women to validate their fetish does the trick.

It's good to analyse and challenge our assessment and assertions. It makes them stronger.

Start with children: is any of that supportive of any child who has begun to query anti science as a result and wants to become a life long medical experiment?

Is any of that supportive of the most vulnerable WOMEN in society who are seeking support after years of abuse and/ or are in prison for minor things or as a result of the dv/ csa/ sexual abuse they experienced?

B

There's an opinion section. It's supposed to be a bit of fun/a social thing that was increasingly a way to "socialise" with colleagues in lockdown.

Is there anything in the argument made from the 'other side' that you do agree with?

A very tricky situation. If you feel your job may be on the chopping board for not having an opinion on it or disagreeing, then just tacitly agree for the sake of it. The alternative is to look for a new job.

Nothing but lies, and emotional blackmail to stop people asking questions.

If it was me I'd possibly complain to someone higher up about the sexist slurs, proven fake suicide stats and the blatant dismissal of legally allowed single sex spaces.

Where is the recognition of the unique experiences girls and women go through as a result of their sex in that? This is just an attempt at emotional manipulation. Absolutely trans people deserve dignity, respect, safety a life free of harassment. We need a space for trans women and trans men but women need there space too, rationally the answer to all those issues is another space that deals with the uniques issues both groups face.

What about women in prison, many of whom are survivors of sexual and domestic abuse, being locked up with make sex offenders? It’s happening in the U.K. right now.

This is my touchstone. What kind of person incarcerates convicted rapists with penises with vulnerable women and lets the inevitable happen? If you’re worried about that and think it’s wrong, I really don’t think you have anything to worry about.

*their space

Perhaps have a read of the 'It will never happen - resource thread' to remind you why we need single sex spaces.

I'm having an "are we the baddies" moment

Good on you. I have those all the time. If you never question yourself you turn into Owen Jones.

Listen to the other arguments and ask yourself whether you've found any actual evidence that humans have more than two sexes or that 'gender' is objectively real.

If you find any do come back and tell us.

I never understood the fairy tale Chicken Licken as a child. Now I do. A lot of people are more easily lead into delusions than you'd expect: just look at human history. Maybe it's that bit of the brain that in some cultures is dominated by patriarchal religions, and here in the social media-saturated West it has a created a 'secular' one, albeit festooned with unicorns and mermaids and gingerbread men and other magical creatures, and with men at the controls and women being made to knuckle under, as usual.

If men's toilets are dangerous for male transitioners, why are teenage female transitioners being encouraged to use them, and encouraged to ask to be placed in boys' dormitories on school trips?

It has always been women who men rape, and female transitioners and lesbians who are at risk of corrective rape if discovered.

Where is the recognition of the unique experiences girls and women go through as a result of their sex in that?

Oh that was addressed - as an accusation that it was reducing women to walking vaginas.

Well, I grew up in a very leftist household and was TWAW for years and would love not to have changed my mind in many ways because I am very alienated from my family, social and career circles in this matter....but I can't pretend I don't see women's rights being trampled on in the name of no debate.

Don't forget that people like us wouldn't post on that kind of forum because it could bring down all kids of shite. Only people with the orthodox view are actually free to comment, so of course it looks skewed. Isn't the term preference falsification?