Clitoris

[Perfect28]

The correct and full terminology for female genitalia is not taught in school. The closest we get to it, as far as I am aware, is the now statutory conversation about FGM. Why is this, and why isn't this a bigger conversation?

I don't know the answer to your question, but it is only recently that I have seen a proper drawing of the clitoris, including its large, hidden parts.

Female sexuality is a field which has not been studied very much compared to its significance (i.e., that it is the sexuality of roughly half of all people). The reasons for that are pretty obvious to me.

But when educators ignore it, porn replaces the schools as teachers about female sexuality. This is dangerous, given that most porn is created for the male audience.

I covered a brief session on 'puberty' this morning for ks3. PowerPoint includes the full labelled diagram of the male genatalia and the same for the external, reproductive parts of a female. I turned the projector off and drew my own diagram. The students had never even heard the word clitoris. Dh is a science teacher, also doesn't have to cover this content in curriculum. Wtf is going on?

Because adults talking to kids about sexual pleasure is creepy. Not because of "our rigid, repressed, regressive society", but because its creepy. I remember the clitoris being labelled once in one biology lesson (along with labia, foreskin, scrotum- a whole bunch of stuff that wasn't just "penis" or "vagina"), fair enough in a biological context. But the pleasure aspect really does not need labouring with children.

There are some things that you don't need to learn at school! There are some things you learn outside of school. There are some things that you learn as an adult. We don't need to be discussing sexual pleasure with children just because a bunch of adults decide they wish they'd learned it "earlier" (than whatever adult age they are now).

Maybe adults need to take more responsibility for their own ongoing learning throughout the whole part of their life that isn't the tiny bit at school?

Sorry, that turned out very ranty! This is a very hot topic in my school at the moment. (and yes, before anyone asks, The school of sexuality education do currently do our RSE. Even that name "sexuality" education creeps me out)

Walkerwalking wow. Do you really think there's no place to discuss these things in a safe setting with actual facts? Instead you think it should be 'learned' where? On the playground? Porn? From parents if they can be bothered or even know the right information themselves? Sex education is not creepy. Facts are not creepy. I'm simply talking about naming of body parts...

@WalkerWalking, I'm actually quite shocked by your comments. Don't you believe that young people should be made aware of their body parts? You can guarantee that they are familiar with the terminology, even if the proper biological names aren't used.

Children are aware that certain parts of their body feel nice from a very young age. It’s not weird for them to know what that part is called.

Teaching the name and location is one thing, teaching what to do with one is quite another snd frankly, as a former science teacher, not something I’d feel comfortable discussing with a bunch of 14 year olds. Is there nothing we’re not expecting to dump on teachers these days?

KS3 just to be clear includes 11 years olds up to 14 year olds?

Does your DH teach the same age group? Just to be clear.

That's such an important point WalkerWalking. And you have my sympathies if you have the boundary free school of sexuality anywhere near children in your school. A certain Peter Tatchell is very keen on talking to children about sexual pleasure. In fact his organisation has written proposals that teachers would teach all children about how to give and receive sexual pleasure (in compulsory lessons) (I'm not kidding).

Teaching SRE is complex and the pleasure side of sex was generally minimised in SRE classes. Seems an odd thing to say but how do you talk to a group of 20 / 30 teenagers about orgasms and sexual pleasure in an age appropriate way that takes account of all the differing needs of the class?

Biological names and facts, no issue whatsoever. Consent and safety, absolutely must be taught. But it makes me very uncomfortable when adults start talking explicitly about (as I said) sexual pleasure. It blurs boundaries that should be very clear between children and adults.

What specifically do you want children to be taught about a clitoris other than its name and location (and existence I suppose)?

I guess I'm just very anxious to make sure that a hard line is drawn somewhere before education about clitoral stimulation techniques...

You've said it better than me!

@MrsOvertonsWindow, but that wasn't the point of the thread, so is actually derailing it.
My response was purely based on allowing young people to know the correct names for their anatomy, as was OP's. I don't believe that's wrong.

Nobody is suggesting it's appropriate to teach them how to masterbate pp.... Simply the full and correct terminology and function. This was a year 7 group so 11 and 12 year olds. We teach both ks3 and ks4.

Masturbate whoops!

So let me get this right.

Teching "to make a baby, the man inserts his erect penis into the woman's vagina and ejaculates sperm" (normal GCSE biology class stuff) is fine without being worried about the sexual pleasure aspect of that.

While teaching "there's an organ here on a woman's body called the clitoris" is somehow creepy and "teaching children about sexual pleasure" and a huge taboo.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that attitude.

@WalkerWalking very well said 👏👏

Why are people wilfully misinterpreting what WalkerWalking said. She said naming body parts and biological facts was fine but adults talking to children about sexual pleasure is creepy as hell. It is not the job of KS3 teachers to tell children how to enjoy sex FFS.

Adults have enjoyed sex for millennia without sex education OR porn. The enjoyment of sex is not the purpose of sex education (evolution has worked that out for you) - biology, consent, assault, boundaries, contraception, reproduction prevention of STDs is.

You can't really escape the fact that the function of the clitoris is for pleasure. Just as the ears are for hearing. It just is. I can't even believe I'm having to justify this. It's outrageous.

ah ok then, could you imagine trying to walk the line between science teacher and porn star? 😁 And the parents. Jesus. Some of them kick off at the word vagina being uttered to their child.

I don’t remember the clitoris being on the syllabus, but then neither were STIs. I only taught biology to ks3 though (physics teacher by trade) so possibly it’s on ks4 or 5?

Fka I would love you to go an look up 'the orgasm gap' and then come back. A large percentage of grown adult women believe they can't orgasm. A large percentage of adults (men and women) can't locate the clitoris. Is this really the situation you think we should stay in?

It's not the job of KS3 teachers to close the "orgasm gap" in adult women.
It really isn't.

Prob not relevant but at 40 +I was horrified to learn that orgasm can occur even during rape.
I was raped which was bad enough.. Having to deal with that I can't imagine..

What source are you quoting that states that there exist ANY (never mind a large percentage) of adult women who can't find their own clitoris? It really does sound like you want adults in schools to teach children how to orgasm?

OK you've kind of extrapolated there. I'm not saying it's the job of KS3 teachers but I am saying it's important that children, who become adults, learn the accurate names locations and function of their body parts. Just out of curiosity do you think closing that gap is important? Do you think it's a feminist goal? Do you think it's important to achieve equality? We label and name the male parts fgs, what is so upsetting and revolutionary about doing the exact same for the female parts?