Clitoris

[Perfect28]

The correct and full terminology for female genitalia is not taught in school. The closest we get to it, as far as I am aware, is the now statutory conversation about FGM. Why is this, and why isn't this a bigger conversation?

I learned about female and male anatomy in developmental biology.

i think that’s a good approach. In basic terms start from sperm meets egg, and look at how an embryo develops and differentiates. How hormones act to cause the same foetal structure to form either testes and a penis or ovaries and a clitoris. this will also cover the urethra and urethral opening- another structure surprisingly few people know about.

gcse science should cover it, it doesn’t even need to considered “sex education”

As a doctor, I covered sex education with my children pretty thoroughly at home, 20 years ago.

My autistic geeky DD, when about 14, was briefly hugely popular with the girls in her class at school. She had patiently
explained the existence, position and function of the clitoris, to girls who thought there was something wrong with them for not being able to orgasm from digital (self) vaginal stimulation.
DD said there was a line of girls queuing to high five her in gratitude on Monday morning…!

Brilliant! It's a shame not everyone will get access to such info.

No, I’m afraid it’s you who are wrong. PSHE is not just “a kind of safety net” for “children from less than ideal home backgrounds”. It’s a statutory part of the National Curriculum with a statutory course content. (I’m a PSHE and safeguarding link school governor, so have looked in great detail at the current curriculum and the core content.)

Perhaps the former teachers etc. on this thread could familiarise themselves with the new statutory requirements in the DfE materials before commenting further?

From the new statutory PSHE guidelines for secondary school education (obviously this covers the whole period between 11-16):

“Intimate and sexual relationships, including sexual health
Pupils should know:
how to recognise the characteristics and positive aspects of healthy one-to-one intimate relationships, which include mutual respect, consent, loyalty, trust, shared interests and outlook, sex and friendship
that all aspects of health can be affected by choices they make in sex and relationships, positively or negatively, for example physical, emotional, mental, sexual and reproductive health and wellbeing
the facts about reproductive health, including fertility and the potential impact of lifestyle on fertility for men and women and menopause
that there are a range of strategies for identifying and managing sexual pressure, including understanding peer pressure, resisting pressure and not pressurising others
that they have a choice to delay sex or to enjoy intimacy without sex
the facts about the full range of contraceptive choices, efficacy and options available
the facts around pregnancy including miscarriage
that there are choices in relation to pregnancy (with medically and legally accurate, impartial information on all options, including keeping the baby, adoption, abortion and where to get further help)
how the different sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including HIV and AIDs, are transmitted, how risk can be reduced through safer sex (including through condom use) and the importance of and facts about testing
about the prevalence of some STIs, the impact they can have on those who contract them and key facts about treatment
how the use of alcohol and drugs can lead to risky sexual behaviour
how to get further advice, including how and where to access confidential sexual and reproductive health advice and treatment.”

www.gov.uk/government/publications/relationships-education-relationships-and-sex-education-rse-and-health-education/relationships-and-sex-education-rse-secondary

How on earth you’d honestly and openly meet those curriculum standards, while never discussing the fact that women experience sexual pleasure, nor letting on where it mysteriously might come from, I have no idea…

Thanks for that @honeybushbunch I’ve never taught PSHE so never done the syllabus. Genuine question- what words would you use in covering off your last paragraph? I’m not being snippy, you’ve clearly done this so I’m curious how far it goes having only come at it from the science perspective myself- how do you explain it in a safe and appropriate way, how much detail do you give?

That sounds stroppy, it’s really not 🙄

Well yes. It is statutory with statutory content because thar safety net is really important!

It is taught in Scottish primary schools rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Part-1.-Male-and-Female-Sex-organs-Labelled-Activity-Prop-3.pdf

rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Part-1.-Names-of-parts-of-my-body-Activity-plan.pdf

Brilliant resources there, and I agree that this should be covered at primary.

It is incorrectly labelled! The clitoral glans is labelled as the clitoris.

Surely this is one of the misunderstandings that leads to women not experiencing more sexual pleasure.

It's not incorrectly labeled. Are you thinking of the clitoris hood?

This is the government regulated Scottish curriculum covered in Scotland. I'm surprised to hear the equivalent is not taught in England. Masturbation is also covered.

No. I am thinking of the clitoris, a large mostly internal organ, of which, a tiny part is externally visible. A clitoris is around five inches long. That tiny thing in that instruction is part of the glans.

It would be like telling boys that part of the glans of their penis was the whole thing!

@CremeEggsForBreakfast
In a similar vein, I tried to look up where my uterus sits in amongst my organs once. I wanted to know how big it is when there's no baby inside, how low down it sits and whether it's in front or behind my intestines etc. Couldn't find a single diagram.

There are tons of diagrams, not sure why you had such difficulty. So here you go. The uterus sort of lies leaning forwards (anteverted) on top of your bladder in most women. However in 10% it is retroverted leans backwards towards the spine (normal variation).

Also, the definition... 'the sexual organ.'

This isn't a commonly understood phrase. Do they mean a sex organ, in which case there's more than one?

To answer OP no issue teaching human anatomy to age 11-14, but agree concepts like sexual pleasure should be left for the PSHE classes. In fact basic anatomy would be very useful general knowledge to people as I am stunned by how many adults have no idea as to the basics of many bodily functions.

Where do you suggest they put an arrow to point to the internal organ in an external diagram?

How do you suggest they define it?

As the clitoris is mostly internal I would include it in the internal organs illustrations and label it correctly.

On the external illustration I would label the clitoral glans as the clitoral glans.

In the context of the way that document is written, maybe 'a female sex organ that can get erect' or maybe a bit more advanced 'a female sex organ made of erectile tissue.'

The document shows that people do find it quite tricky. They can illustrate a bladder and a rectum, they can describe a cervix and a scrotum, but when it comes to a clitoris it is 'the sexual organ' and is some tiny thing.

Sorry, missed part of the quote off above. I was replying to redbigbananafeet.

Really (un?)surprised at how many women in this thread arguing against sex education don't seem to have any better understanding of their bodies than the average teenage girl.

I don't think I would expect a teacher to stand in front of a class and talk about specific sex techniques or masturbation. I would not want to do it! I would not have wanted my teacher to do it! But currently boys and girls leave school only knowing a basic reproductive script for sex that damages girls' physical and mental health and weakens (straight) relationships, and wherever else you see sex depicted (tv, films, books, porn) it's the same story.

Fortunately, I think there's a workable middle ground here.

For starters, when teaching the reproductive model of sex, it's not possible to describe it without references to arousal. For males, it's not a possible act without an erection. For females, it's possible to have penetrative sex without arousal, but it can cause internal injury (as well as physical and emotional pain). Females have as much erectile tissue as males. The clitoral (sometimes called urethral) sponge protects the urethra from physical irritation during penetration (the main cause of UTIs). Lubrication and vaginal muscle relaxation (often mentioned in basic sex ed already) prevent vaginal tearing. Arousal is therefore necessary for safe sex and full arousal in females (i.e. the kind that makes the clitoral sponge erect) generally requires physical stimulation.

So ideally: 1) teach accurate anatomy of the full clitoral network and vagina and how arousal changes it. Why arousal is important for functionality for both male and female. 2) I think a very brief generalised comment, mentioning that clitoral stimulation is necessary for full arousal in females, can be made while remaining scientific and avoiding uncomfortable specifics.

Recommended reading:

The Hite Report, by Shere Hite (this has been a problem for so long!) Come As You Are, by Emily Nagoski. Vagina Obscura, by Rachel Gross. John Gottman and his wife's research on desire. Read about Helen O'Connell (who first mapped the full clitoris in 2005!!) and the women of the Federation of Feminist Women’s Health her work built upon.