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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hell of an email re safeguarding.

65 replies

tableandchairsgreen · 26/04/2022 17:28

Just got this from DCs' school. It kinda beggars belief. No safeguarding risk with mixed sex loos, changing rooms and overnight accommodation. Just Ewwww.

Anyway so off I'll be going to the LEA. Any advice?
Is it worth posting my location to gather some like minded friends?

Email:
As a school we follow the advice of the Local authority which includes the trans toolkit and this was first published in 2013. The toolkit advised schools that “The general approach should be to ‘use the toilet you want to use’.” that “Changing rooms can be communal rooms in keeping with their gender identity”, and that “Pupils should be able to sleep where they feel most comfortable. This is especially important when sleeping arrangements are made on the basis of gender.”

More recently the updated guidance produced for [local] Council asserts that “In all cases, trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity”, and that a trans-identified male pupil “is a girl and as such has the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls”. The toolkit does not contain an Equality Impact Assessment, nor are schools advised to carry one out to assess the impact of introducing its guidance on all the other protected characteristics.

This Toolkit also states that there are “no provisions in child protection and safeguarding legislation specific to trans children and young people aside from what is in place to keep all pupils and students safe” and they therefore conclude that “There is nothing to prohibit trans children and young people using the changing rooms or toilets which reflect their gender identity.” This approach is underpinned by the Equality Act 2010, whereby refusing a child or young person access to the changing room of their gender identity would constitute an act of discrimination.”

If you require further information about the toolkit then the LA are best served to answer any queries.

OP posts:
SpindleInTheWind · 26/04/2022 17:32

Is your school fully a Local Authority community school? Or an Academy (or part of an academy chain) btw?

motherofchihuahuas · 26/04/2022 17:35

Can they actually do this by law I get so mixed up?

What about the girls who feel most comfortable in a single sex changing space?

PegLegAntoine · 26/04/2022 17:38

What about the girls who feel most comfortable in a single sex changing space?

Their feelings don’t matter, of course :(

HollowTalk · 26/04/2022 17:38

What would they do about a boy who had a girlfriend and said he was trans in order to sleep in the same room as her? Is this something that would never happen?

Noisyprat · 26/04/2022 17:39

Interesting. Perhaps you should email them and just confirm that all the girls who identify as boys can use the boys changing rooms........

might get them thinking before you go in with what the actual Equality Act does state .....

BangtanLove · 26/04/2022 17:39

Well that sounds like they are encouraging parents to complain to the LA because they feel their hands are tied and they need parents to provide impetus/leverage.

sweetgrapes · 26/04/2022 17:40

motherofchihuahuas · 26/04/2022 17:35

Can they actually do this by law I get so mixed up?

What about the girls who feel most comfortable in a single sex changing space?

The girls need re-educating of course.
And there's no risk - because nothing bad ever happens. Ever.
Never. Ever.

Honestly, people's brains have just fallen out Hmm

MidCenturyClegs · 26/04/2022 17:40

If your school is run by a LA and not an Academy then you should contact your LA. Otherwise if an Academy then contact them direct.

Really good resources:

www.transgendertrend.com/

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

A new group have just found started out which I've heard are great:

teachersguidetosexandgender.org/

sweetgrapes · 26/04/2022 17:41

Anyway... to be a bit more constructive... have a look here safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

bellac11 · 26/04/2022 17:45

Noisyprat · 26/04/2022 17:39

Interesting. Perhaps you should email them and just confirm that all the girls who identify as boys can use the boys changing rooms........

might get them thinking before you go in with what the actual Equality Act does state .....

How is that going to change anything? They will just say yes the girls can use the boys changing rooms, why wouldnt they?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/04/2022 17:46

Utter madness. I wonder what the Biology teachers make of this. Do they think all a boy has to do is say 'I identify as a girl' and that magically makes them incapable of impregnating a girl? Are they labouring under the delusion that all transwomen/girls are same-sex attracted so the girls are of no interest to them sexually? Can they really honestly believe that a transboy would be perfectly safe in a boys' dormitory/toilet just because of uttering the words 'I identify as a boy'?

Noisyprat · 26/04/2022 17:48

Well bellac I think there is a strong chance they would say 'no' as they know how dangerous this would be. If they did say 'yes' well it's just more ammunition against them isn't it, looking at OPs email they've only mentioned boys using girls changing rooms, OP should be asking them why this is.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/04/2022 17:50

BangtanLove · 26/04/2022 17:39

Well that sounds like they are encouraging parents to complain to the LA because they feel their hands are tied and they need parents to provide impetus/leverage.

That's why it sounded like to me too.

This bit

The toolkit does not contain an Equality Impact Assessment, nor are schools advised to carry one out to assess the impact of introducing its guidance on all the other protected characteristics.

Stood out as sounding rather odd and not something a school would be supportive of.

Lots of these trans toolkits have been withdrawn by LEAs because they are unlawful.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3961381-Local-Education-Authorities-withdrawing-damaging-trans-guidance

WhiteFire · 26/04/2022 17:51

BangtanLove · 26/04/2022 17:39

Well that sounds like they are encouraging parents to complain to the LA because they feel their hands are tied and they need parents to provide impetus/leverage.

Is the OP exactly how the email came out? If so I agree with this especially in regards to the impact assessment. (Or lack of as the case may be)

That email is laying out exactly what it means.

bellac11 · 26/04/2022 17:51

Noisyprat · 26/04/2022 17:48

Well bellac I think there is a strong chance they would say 'no' as they know how dangerous this would be. If they did say 'yes' well it's just more ammunition against them isn't it, looking at OPs email they've only mentioned boys using girls changing rooms, OP should be asking them why this is.

I agree with you, I just think they are unlikely to say no.

tableandchairsgreen · 26/04/2022 18:00

to answer a few questions:

yes it’s a normal school. Not academy.
yes the email was cut and paste, no changes.
yes the comment about how males can use the girls’ changing rooms is quite sinister. No pretend of he/ she/ they can.

I’m on the safer schools website, thanks for that. Will also read up on the other thread.

I guess the next thing to do is write a letter to the head of education in the council. Maybe make it recorded so it can’t ‘get lost’.

No point writing to my MP. She is the most captured of them all. 😉

OP posts:
MissPollysFitDolly · 26/04/2022 18:06

bellac11 · 26/04/2022 17:51

I agree with you, I just think they are unlikely to say no.

But as Noisyprat says the email doesn't mention the transboy with boys scenario, bringing it up might get them thinking a bit more about the implications.

StillWeRise · 26/04/2022 18:08

BangtanLove · 26/04/2022 17:39

Well that sounds like they are encouraging parents to complain to the LA because they feel their hands are tied and they need parents to provide impetus/leverage.

I agree
they are hoping that parents will go...you what????
and then they will have to change/do an impact assessment or whatever
OP there are some LAs who have gone back on all the trans stuff...I think maybe Oxford, after a girl pupil took them to court or something? Cite that.

WhiteFire · 26/04/2022 18:09

It seems very much written in a style of being completely factual, so can't be accused of "transphobia" whilst also being written in a way that lays it out absolutely clearly what the impact is, alongside the plea to take it higher.

itsgettingweird · 26/04/2022 18:13

Simple

"Does the toolkit also have any paragraph about the rights of females and males to change with those born with the same sex as them and their right to change where they feel comfortable? Does the toolkit have any explanations about how a social construct such as gender has priority and is a protected characteristic over sexual biology that pupils cannot control. Does it say ate anywhere why woman and girls have have to change in front of men - before the age of sexual consent - because the men/boys state they are more comfortable with that?"

I don't get why they can't just have separate spaces for those who say they are trans gender. It's really not ok for one persons rights to trump another Angry

WhiteFire · 26/04/2022 18:14

But as Noisyprat says the email doesn't mention the transboy with boys scenario, bringing it up might get them thinking a bit more about the implications.

Whoever wrote that email wants people to complain. Saying a boy will change with the girls will make more people go "WHAT?"

StrongOutspokenOftenIrritating · 26/04/2022 18:16

Someone at that school has their head screwed on. If they’re local to me I’ll write to the LA. In fact even if they aren’t I’ll write. Concern for vulnerable children isn’t limited by geography.

ChopinBoard · 26/04/2022 18:23

I remember a thread from ages ago, sorry can't find it but the gist was:

LEA produce or promote a particular toolkit and say it is up to individual schools to risk assess.

Schools say the toolkit is produced/promoted by the LEA so we assume they've crossed all the Ts and dotted all the Is 🙄

No one actually risk assesses.

IcakethereforeIam · 26/04/2022 18:30

I think it's worthwhile writing to your MP, even if it's just so they can't claim ignorance.

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