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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hell of an email re safeguarding.

65 replies

tableandchairsgreen · 26/04/2022 17:28

Just got this from DCs' school. It kinda beggars belief. No safeguarding risk with mixed sex loos, changing rooms and overnight accommodation. Just Ewwww.

Anyway so off I'll be going to the LEA. Any advice?
Is it worth posting my location to gather some like minded friends?

Email:
As a school we follow the advice of the Local authority which includes the trans toolkit and this was first published in 2013. The toolkit advised schools that “The general approach should be to ‘use the toilet you want to use’.” that “Changing rooms can be communal rooms in keeping with their gender identity”, and that “Pupils should be able to sleep where they feel most comfortable. This is especially important when sleeping arrangements are made on the basis of gender.”

More recently the updated guidance produced for [local] Council asserts that “In all cases, trans pupils or students should have access to the changing room that corresponds to their gender identity”, and that a trans-identified male pupil “is a girl and as such has the right under the Equality Act to change with the girls”. The toolkit does not contain an Equality Impact Assessment, nor are schools advised to carry one out to assess the impact of introducing its guidance on all the other protected characteristics.

This Toolkit also states that there are “no provisions in child protection and safeguarding legislation specific to trans children and young people aside from what is in place to keep all pupils and students safe” and they therefore conclude that “There is nothing to prohibit trans children and young people using the changing rooms or toilets which reflect their gender identity.” This approach is underpinned by the Equality Act 2010, whereby refusing a child or young person access to the changing room of their gender identity would constitute an act of discrimination.”

If you require further information about the toolkit then the LA are best served to answer any queries.

OP posts:
FrancescaContini · 26/04/2022 22:46

tableandchairsgreen · 26/04/2022 19:25

MP we’re in the home of green. But you are right, I shouldn’t assume the response.

will Google Oxford and the case recommended.

I read the email as totally arse covering, but pleased you all disagree. It is a bit ‘the big boys did it’.

It seems a MASSIVE change to make all the facilities mixed gender and not tell any parents.

Ah. “Home of green” is woke city.
There have been plenty of threads on this issue over the past months so it’s definitely worth searching for the excellent advice offered. Some posters have already suggested some good sources of sound guidance.

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 26/04/2022 22:47

(I agree that whoever wrote the e-mail was hoping for mumsnet power pointed at the LA.)

Stravaig · 26/04/2022 22:57

This is so well done by the writer/school. Decoded: 'Please contact the LEA to protest these issues, with especial reference to x,y,z.'

tootiredtoocare · 26/04/2022 23:09

I think the school are asking parents to act. That sounds very much like - we're not allowed to say it, but you can, please do it. I reckon if you get some parents organised you could sort it. Fight for a separate gender-neutral changing room/toilet space, so that all the children are protected.

PrelateChuckles · 26/04/2022 23:20

I have to say, the use of "trans-identified male" in the email is... surprising.

It's not a term used by many, and definitely not those who would prefer to state that such people were girls.

foodfiend · 26/04/2022 23:30

Yes, agree that this sounds like a 'cry for help' from the school.

The wording you quote from the updated toolkit sounds verbatim like the one in our area, so they're likely using the same template. There's info on the Safe Schools Alliance site, including a template letter, and examples of the toolkit so you can compare if yours is the same.

It's an absolute safeguarding nightmare. The idea that you could put these two statements in the same document without spotting a problem is enraging:
“Pupils should be able to sleep where they feel most comfortable. This is especially important when sleeping arrangements are made on the basis of gender.”
“no provisions in child protection and safeguarding legislation specific to trans children and young people aside from what is in place to keep all pupils and students safe

No consideration for what any OTHER children might find comfortable, and no recognition that 'what is in place to keep all pupils and students safe' would always otherwise include SINGLE SEX SLEEPING ACCOMMODATION!

Instantnoodles · 27/04/2022 07:15

It is very encouraging that teachers in such a woke place are spelling this out to parents. I also read it as a call to action.

AnIckabog · 27/04/2022 07:27

It will be about trans identified males in girls' changing rooms rather than about transboys in the boys' changing rooms because the latter rarely happens.
These trans toolkits give the choice to the trans child. 9 times out of 10 a transgirl wants to be in the female changing room. 9 times out of 10 a transboy requests a separate space and changes in a disabled gender neutral toilet - they don't feel safe in the boys' and don't want to be there. It says a lot about who is driving the push to gender neutral rather than third spaces.

pistachioicecream · 27/04/2022 07:42

poshme · 26/04/2022 20:21

If your MP is useles, maybe try writing to Nadhim Zahawi- he's in charge of education. You could email him and say you're not a constituent- but emailing specifically to ask when he's releasing the new guidance for schools because you are concerned with

I agree - definitely write to Nadhim Zahawi in his capacity as Education Minister. He is actively looking at guidance for schools in how to handle these situations.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/trans-transgender-children-nadhiim-zahawi-teachers-b995272.html?amp

SolasAnla · 27/04/2022 09:17

AnIckabog your point becomes "stating the obvious" when sex words female or male are used. So the mantra to ignore sex is to demand schools ignore the safeguarding risks involved.

It will be about trans identified males in girls' female changing rooms rather than about transboys females in the boys' male changing rooms because the latter rarely happens.
These trans provision of child service's toolkits give the choice of safeguarding provision to the trans child. 9 times out of 10 a transgirl male wants to be in the female changing room. 9 times out of 10 a transboy female requests a separate space and the school decides that the appropiate accomadation to facilitate safeguarding is changes in a disabled gender neutral toilet - they the female children don't feel safe in the boys' male changing rooms and don't want to be there regarded as male when they fear for their safety. It says a lot about who is driving the push to gender neutral ignore the lack of safeguarding in mixed sex spaces in the school environment rather than third spaces.

Why are some internal emotions of a child sufficient to have a mixed sex changing room imposed on other children against their wishes and adults decide that different safeguarding criteria apply to different children.

tableandchairsgreen · 28/04/2022 12:13

Thanks all. + bumping for lurkers. I had no idea the school had changed the loos and changing rooms from single sex to single gender.

If you think it’s a bad idea then probably best asking your schools. I didn’t get in a argument just politely asked questions.

OP posts:
gingerbiscuitandacuppatea · 04/05/2022 10:31

I have heard similar from my secondary. Their policies are in-line with council guidance and agree policies need updating, trying to apply pressures for updates both as a school and as part of a group of head teachers.

icelolly12 · 04/05/2022 10:51

So the possibility of teenage pregnancies on school trips isn't a safeguarding concern? Never mind rape.

Feckingfeck · 04/05/2022 10:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Feckingfeck · 04/05/2022 11:17

Why was my message deleted?

More protection of ridiculous rules than rights to feel safe?

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