Guide Association settles with Katie Alcock

[GrimDamnFanjo]

I thought this deserves a thread of its own.

Well done!

go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=mobile.twitter.com/wontsomeonethi2/status/1516374537126002691?t=N6mKy04rpaiNyX9jmwKM6A&s=19

Yes there's one in AIBU

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4539804-to-remind-you-that-rainbows-brownies-and-guides-are-mixed-sex

From the Times article, GG apparently said: "“Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person."

But it doesn't make them less, either.

And, once more and with feeling, GG, it's not about individuals, it's about the loopholes that are created for any bad actors and the apprehension it sets up that may block participation by girls who need single sex spaces.

Ah, Girlguiding, doing the shocked Pikachu face over the very idea that A safe girl-only space shouldn’t include bepenised “girls” 🙄

Weird how all the other protected characteristics are actively exploited as mere tokens to demonstrate “diverse” membership but this got grabbed on to. And they just won’t let go.

Surely someone on here has a son who’s longing to be a Rainbow/Brownie/Guide/Ranger & is thus being unfairly discriminated against by Girlguiding?

'I asked if I could bring a friend and was told I could, but she couldn't speak. I was told I could take notes, but not take them away with me. It was like having my crimes read out in a secret court with no right of reply.

I know this has been picked up on already, but JFC. This is truly chilling. Not allowed representation. Not allowed to take notes away?!

It really is police state stuff. From the Guides. The Guides! Absolute insanity.

I don’t have any knowledge as an adult of sleeping arrangements for Brownies, for example, but the reality is that the safeguarding risk when adults and children are the same sex is vastly increased when that sex is male.

When both adults and children are female, it’s a very different picture.

Simply being transgender may not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person, as there is no suggestion that biologically female people who identify as trans are more of a risk than other female people.

Simply being biologically male, however, does, sadly make someone more of a safeguarding risk than biologically female people, and that holds true however the biologically male person identifies.

Given the percentage of bio male trans prisoners convicted of sex offences (much higher than the percentage of male prisoners overall convicted of sex offences), there is actually room to question whether the combination of being biologically male + identifying as trans actually does increase the safeguarding risk even more.

But that aside, the one thing we know without a doubt is that sex offences are vastly more likely to be carried out by male people than by female people.

And the clear intention of GG is to obscure that fact with their misleading, inaccurate talk of “transgender” people, when the issue they need to be acknowledging and focusing on is that this is about male people. Male people and the heightened safeguarding risk they represent to young female people.

Scouting doesn't allow adults and children to share tents/toilets or changing rooms. There are always kids toilets and adults are a separate building

Guiding doesn't encourage this either, but sometimes it's just not practical. For instance, you could be away for the weekend with a child who needs help going to the toilet.
We were at a camping event with Brownies a few years ago. A couple of girls had a bit of homesickness in the middle of the night, so ended up in the Leaders' tent so they didn't wake up the whole campsite.
The important thing is to never be alone with one child.

The important thing is to never be alone with one child.
If a child and an adult are awake, you are effectively alone.
If you are an adult who wants to avoid allegations, you then wake up another adult.
If you are an abuser, you don't.
"There's another adult present" does not make me think it's OK for my daughter to share a sleepover hall with a man.

I completely agree.

I assume the email to parents and carers which went out today, is GG providing 'easy to understand' policies and procedures, although as always you would need to know that you need to read it.

It does seem very clear now about exactly who is eligible to join.

Also the residential stuff seems to be updated and volunteers are encouraged that "Completing a support plan with the young person and their parent or carer may help to assess their needs, find solutions and identify any risks to them and their privacy."

Progress of a kind?

Can you paste the text here?

Also the residential stuff seems to be updated and volunteers are encouraged that "Completing a support plan with the young person and their parent or carer may help to assess their needs, find solutions and identify any risks to them and their privacy."

And if all 20+ girls/parents want a support plan because one other individual has been included....?

Are they allowed to do support plans for concerned adults too?

But that aside, the one thing we know without a doubt is that sex offences are vastly more likely to be carried out by male people than by female people.

Is that the reason while biological male sex crimes are now recorded as crimes committed by women? If they can obscure the stats and say that women are as likely to abuse as males, then having males in female and children's spaces isn't a specific safeguarding issue.

Diversity and inclusion
Last year we published a diversity and inclusion strategic plan at Girlguiding. We want to make sure everyone feels welcome and that they belong. Nearly a year on, here’s how we’ve got on and what’s coming next.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/what-we-do/our-stories-and-news/blogs/belonging-in-guiding/

Then I clicked on the link under Changing Our Culture

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/supporting-trans-members/

I don't think that's new. I remember all those inclusion advisers from not that long ago.

I hadn't seen this page before

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/supporting-trans-members/supporting-trans-young-members/

No, that's not new.

I've been a leader for 10 years and have only recently become aware of these changes, even though they've been in effect since 2018 (I think). It isn't mentioned in their Safe Space training, and it's impossible to decipher their ridiculous language when they're not using "girl" and "woman" accurately. I am currently raising concerns with Volunteer Support but have just yesterday had a very defensive response back which flipped it around and basically said "prove to us that you're not transphobic or we'll take this further"...

So their statement is a crock. Are you going to take it further?

sex-matters.org/posts/single-sex-services/girlguiding-settles/

So, they're saying 'transphobic until proven innocent'.

I guess 'transphobic until you agree that boys can be girls'. I have gotten in touch with some other concerned leaders and I plan to take it further. I'm not sure what route to take yet but I'm not going to go quietly. They can kick me out if they want to, but I won't lie to children.

IANAL but GC beliefs, thanks to Maya Forstater and Alison Bailey, are protected. While, obviously, it doesn't give carte blanche GG shouldn't be able to sack, discipline and the like because you may hold those views. And, anyway, since when is safeguarding transphobic? Except everything is transphobic.