Girlguiding dilemma

[Nameychangey33]

Name changed for this in case outing but frequent on this board.

DD currently goes to an activity with a small bunch of other girls. Now all of the girls are joining a group under the Girlguiding banner and I really don't know what to do. DD is the only one not going. If she gets wind of it, and at some point she will, she will feel left out and ask to join. At this point there may be no spaces and I'll feel guilty for not registering her.

I've had a good read of the website, it's all kindness this and inclusion that, and their position is still letting self id rule for members and volunteers alike. Their section on any parent of girls with questions, basically refer them to their page (for 'education' basically!) I think at DDs age my main concern is she comes home from a session talking about pronouns and identities etc. I don't want her subjected to any woo woo at such an impressionable age. I also don't want GG to see her registration as me condoning their position of this ideology, as I really really don't.

I really get on with all the other mums, but I don't want to rock to boat by voicing any of this to them though. But I don't want DD left out, and by extension, me too. I find it hard to make friends, and these are the only mum friends I have. If DD was to join anything like this I'd rather it was under Scouting because you know you're getting mixed sex from the get go. But her friends aren't there.

I'm probably over thinking this, I could just let her go and keep a good eye over what she's learning there.

Not interested in the usual lurkers popping up to tell me what a bigot I am so bugger off in advance. More do I just grit my teeth and swallow my principles because it'll make DD happy to be with her friends.

Rainbows? They barely sit still long enough to put the glitter glue on their Christmas snowflake, they're not going to be sitting around for a discussion on gender.

My 5 year old goes to Rainbows. They've never had anything like this discussed. They did have a bit of a chat about gender stereotypes on International Women's Day but that was more asking them what they thought about certain statements like "Girls don't play football" and probably lasted a maximum of 15 minutes.

The rest of the time they're doing crafts, playing games and stuff.

I'm a scouter and have posed about scouts being just as captured as guides the difference is everyone knows we are mixed sex.

What i would say is the aside from the feminist issue I firmly believe that it is healthier for kids to have more than one friendship group. I actively encourage you to find another group where your child can make other friends.
Doing the same things with the same people all the time is limiting and as the girls grow and they change, the inevitable fall outs are much tougher when they can't escape those people because they are in their out of school life as well.

Local to me a scouts district has acquired an ex guide campsite. I went to visit and was immediately struck by the fact that all the buildings have one single large room as a dorm. Very few separate rooms, maybe one leaders sleepover room.
With my scout hat on I was thinking that basically that means right now they aren't fit for mixed sex use. If I take my beavers away they would all have to share- boys and girls. The young leaders(14-18) would have to sleep in tents outside etc etc logistically using guiding spaces for mixed sex just doesn't work within safeguarding.
Also there were no boys and girls toilets.
Beaver age mixed sex sleeping is less problematic that in the older sections.
I would never use those buildings with my explorers(14-18).
Scout sites with buildings generally have multiple rooms so there is plenty of options for all groups.

It really saddens me the people ignoring the issue because their kids enjoy it.

Safeguarding should be first and foremost for every parent. Guides have shown that anyone raising an issue is removed. Nothing excuses that and by continuing to support an organisation that does this you are complicit in their grooming.

Dd is a Brownie and absolutely loves it. I'm happy for her to stay going, but she won't ever go on any pack holidays because of the lack of safeguarding. That's where I've put my red line.

I've never come across any Girl Guiding group that has had anybody but women and girls there. Whatever their stance on gender, do you honestly think this is so common that your daughter would come across it, let alone be at risk from it?!

I wouldn't give a second thought to letting my daughter join if she wanted to.

I'm afraid after the debacle of their safeguarding with the interesting leader phographing themselves with guns and plastering it all over social media with a 'so what'/'bring your whole self to work' extravaganza, I would not let a child I was responsible for anywhere near that organisation. And that's before I had to worry about what political propaganda might be fed behind my back, or whether safeguarding process was carefully not looking at uncomfortable facts and prioritising TQ+ adult choices over female child needs. That is not to say I blame the women on the ground trying to run the units in the face of all this batshit, but trying to be nice and fair and consider all the sides just basically enables the rot to keep growing.

I'd be finding another club or activity for that night to make GG incompatible. And if I had to I would explain to dd that I have to make decisions in her best interests and this is one she will be able to understand when she's older, but right now the answer is no.

I'm a GG leader. Like many of us I totally disagree with the way that we are supposed to ignore bio sex. However the program doesn't actually include anything about gender (ignoring one activity about challenging gender perception which is rubbish so we just wouldn't use).
I think in reality we are more likely to get girls identifying as NB than trans girls and it's great that we can keep them in a female sex environment while they work through the complexity of puberty where many many girls feel uncomfortable.
Have thought how I would handle a trans girl. My risk assessment would make the loos one in at a time for all to have respect and privacy. On a residential I would only run with single sex sleeping. This is actually allowed by out rules as we have to consider all young people. The trans girl and anyone else not comfortable with group washing etc would be allowed to use the disabled facility (which isn't taking it from disabled users as we have our own residential areas) to maintain privacy as we wouldn't want the young person to be made uncomfortable that 'she' was different.
At the end of the day we are here to support young people in what is an increasingly tricky world.

Same situation here OP.

DD is not going to guides. We will find another activity. Weirdly, when I was honest on a WhatsApp group about my concerns another mum said she felt the same. Then another. So there you go. You won’t be alone.

I would absolutely not let my daughter join Rainbows or Brownies or Guides. Not a snowball in hells chance.

If everybody left and nobody joined up maybe they'd have another look at their safeguarding policies, but by letting your daughter join you're agreeing to their principles!

As a PP mentioned it is very good for your daughter's development to have other social circles. Look at what else is on offer, pony riding, trampolining, gymnastics, dancing?

There is so much more on offer than an organisation where some poor young woman is going to be hurt in the very near future. It's a horror story waiting to happen and I would never ever be involved with it.

And I judge all who let their daughter go there!

At the end of the day we are here to support young people in what is an increasingly tricky world.

I disagree! The clue is in the name Girl guides!

There are plenty of another organisations that take both sexes. Leave the girl guides for just girls!

@Hallyup89

I've never come across any Girl Guiding group that has had anybody but women and girls there. Whatever their stance on gender, do you honestly think this is so common that your daughter would come across it, let alone be at risk from it?!

I wouldn't give a second thought to letting my daughter join if she wanted to.

Safeguarding isn't a pick and choose.

They are ignoring a gaping hole - what else are they ignoring?
If they can't get the big things right then they can't get the small things right.

All you leaders who are ignoring the issue- you know this organisation doesn't have your back, that you will be thrown to the wolves if something goes wrong.

Just because the day to day running doesn't involve gender ideology doesn't mean it isn't a big deal.

How can you take your units to any event involving any other guide groups with this ridiculous policy?

Gi

It's the 'here's a box of chocolates. Only one or two of them will poison you. So which one are you going to eat?' thing again.

Exactly @Artichokeleaves!

'My group doesn't have any males in it'
the whole point is as a parent you wouldn't be allowed to be informed!
You would have no informed choice and any leader who gave you that choice would be breaking the rules and face disciplinary action.
You wouldn't know until it was too late.
Russian roulette with your girls safety

@FatFucker

At the end of the day we are here to support young people in what is an increasingly tricky world.

I disagree! The clue is in the name Girl guides!

There are plenty of another organisations that take both sexes. Leave the girl guides for just girls!

Young people means girls - we have used this for the 25 plus years I have been involved as an adult and before any of the dodgy stonewall influence as it is more empowering for our older age group. It is also important for our NB female young members who we want to have a safe female place where hopefully they learn to understand that there is no such thing as gender stereotypes and can develop to be confident young women.

My daughters have gone through from rainbows and now onto guides. I volunteer with the local brownie group (parent helper). The slightest whiff of gender-woo at grassroots level and I will take all three of us out of the organisation immediately. So far it has been fine, but I long ago decided it was better to monitor my local situation from within GG than outside. (The new brownie badge scheme is more akin to some ghastly management training programme, but that's a different topic altogether)

My girls are in brownies and guides. The local units are brilliant and the fact that they are single sex make a big difference to my daughters. If they start letting boys in, then I would have to think about whether it is worth them going. They are going on the overnight camps this year, as they are just with local units and leaders that I trust.

If girl guides were to disappear or become officially mixed-sex because of all this, then that would feel like a massive loss for women and girls (and probably a victory for MRA types). I don’t want to write it off yet. It would be so hard to re-establish.

Just let her go for goodness sake. You are being ridiculous.

If this is about rainbows, you are being ridiculous.

Wait till she goes to secondary school. Then the gender identity pressure will be coming from her peers not her guide leaders.

I allowed my Ds to attend a group (not GG or Scouts) that was fully genderwoo, because he loved it and had friends in it, but I was very, very thorough about getting written confirmation that he would always be in single sex sleeping and washing spaces. I really spelt it out, no possibility of confusion with " single gender" (ie mixed) spaces.

‘If they can't get the big things right then they can't get the small things right.’

This.

Mine goes, the leaders are all no-nonsense older lesbians so I'm not worried about our pack. No inter-pack sleepovers yet though. I guess I'll look at that when it happens.

@Nameychangey33

Trying to be a vague as I can but it's the group for the youngest ones, as it's all on the GG website I thought it's all part of GG. Hence I could be really over thinking this, but there seems to be such a push to deliver the gender woo to younger age groups I wouldn't put it past them if that's the message that comes down from above. But thanks for everyone who has responded, good points all round.

If you are talking about Rainbows...if it’s a Anything like where my GD goes....it will be 2 or 3 local ladies who put on weekly activities including colouring, playing games, dancing, crafts and cooking .....my GD has been at rainbows 18months....she wouldn’t have a clue about any ‘gender woo’ as you call it.

Do what will make your daughter happy

I agree with others that most leaders of individual units are highly unlikely to be pushing gender woo, especially at Rainbows age. I think they're just as likely to come across it from other areas (school, friends, TV, etc).

For me, weighing up the tiny risk of gender woo versus the risk of being left out of something her friends are doing, I would let her go. There will be many risks we have to weigh up for our kids, and I'm quite risk averse, but I think Rainbows is a low risk activity overall.

I do get your dilemma and others' reservations though