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Original poster

What is the correct response to TERF?

110 replies

flashpaper · 14/04/2022 08:23

I was called a TERF at work the other day. Someone made a comment about JKR and I just said "JKR said nothing wrong". There was an audible gasp from the others around but the conversation stopped immediately when someone else walked in and asked what was going on. The person who made the comment about JKR in the first place said "we have some trans exclusionary radical feminism going on over here" and pointed at me. I just said "I'm not a trans exclusionary radical feminist". I honestly didn't expect it and didn't have an response prepared.
DP has said I shouldn't make comments like that again as he's worried about me losing my job, so it probably won't happen again, but what should I have said back? What's the correct response to it?

OP posts:
Crcohetmonster · 15/04/2022 08:39

My response to being called a TERF… tinkly laugh, head tilt and ‘you ok hon.’

Pluvia · 15/04/2022 10:16

If anyone calls me a terf I just say in a very cheerful, upbeat way 'Yes, I am! You seem quite bright, why aren't you one too?'

But then I'm a lesbian and for the last 40 years I've had random people shout 'lesbian' and 'dyke' at me in the street and have responded 'That's me!'

With a bit of luck when Maya's verdict comes in you can go to your manager and make it clear that you expect your views to be respected in the workplace and if they aren't, you can take them to a tribunal.

LaingsAcidTab · 15/04/2022 11:07

"I don't subscribe to that religion."

It is true for me, and it throws a wee curve-ball into the proceedings.

TopKnotch · 15/04/2022 11:51

The thing is, I'm not trans exclusionary as I include those who believe they are transmen in my feminism.

I am trans woman exclusionary yes, and that's ok.

So I'm half ok with being a terf and certainly all the fellow TERFS I know irl and online are calm, rational, kind and intelligent people so am in good company.

rabbitwoman · 15/04/2022 12:06

@Narcoanonymoose

Like it ever happened Hmm Most of the women I work with aren't interested abd don't e en kniw what TERF means.
That's nice.

On the other hand, I am literally having these conversations every day now. And I make a point of never bringing it up myself.

So I guess lots of people are interested, do realise there is something going on, maybe are parroting what they have heard in passing around JKR in particular and are gasp asking questions.

TheGreatATuin · 15/04/2022 13:31

I'm not quite in that position but the person I work most closely with (gay man) has casually mentioned terfs twice in the last few months. Once when talking about Harry Potter and once when there was fundraising for Refuge.
Each time, I've just ignored it and deflected but I am considering saying something because it really irks me.
I'm thinking something of the lines of "I agree with JKR. The trans movement has a staggering misogyny problem and I'm fed up with women being called terfs for calling it out".
And possibly, if he keeps on with it, point out that he's not a woman, and doesn't get to dictate what a woman is to me.
It's tricky because he is otherwise a decent guy (I know!). I think he's just swallowed the Kool Aid and is just parroting what he's heard.
I don't think he suspects I'm on the terfy side at all. I just don't fit their stereotype of one.
But then, it is work and its a huge can of worms to open.

Bollindger · 15/04/2022 19:09

if he does it again, say, I am going to REPORT you to HR.
And smile at him.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 15/04/2022 19:35

"What's trans exclusionary radical feminism? What do they exclude trans people from?"

FemaleAndLearning · 15/04/2022 20:19

This judge made this ruling.

What is the correct response to TERF?
lemmein · 15/04/2022 21:17

I'd just say thanks - I don't see what's so derogatory about the term really (although I know obviously those that use the term are using it in a derogatory way). I do want penises excluded from women's spaces so I'm happy to be called a TERF (It should be PERF really - I have no issue with TM) It only has power as an insult if you let it - I'd be more offended being called 'cis'.

Don't take criticism from someone whom you wouldn't take advice is a sound motto to have I think. Maybe get it printed on a mug for work Grin

dementedma · 15/04/2022 21:19

Laughter.

Pluvia · 15/04/2022 22:53

@Narcoanonymoose

Like it ever happened Hmm Most of the women I work with aren't interested abd don't e en kniw what TERF means.
A few weeks ago I was working on a construction site with a male technician whom I know to say hello to and his sidekick: both decent non-sexist men in their 40s. We were 25 metres up on a roof when one of them said to me, 'Pluvia, what's your take on this transgender thing?' and then told me all about his surprisingly well-informed concerns. Before I could get a word in the man working with him chipped in to tell me how worried he is about his wife and daughters' potential loss of rights. I just told them I shared their worries and invited them to attend an upcoming local event, which they did — and they brought their wives, too. If two guys working in the construction sector know what a terf is, @Narcoanonymoose, you can bet most women do.
arethereanyleftatall · 16/04/2022 09:31

Own it and don't take it as an insult.
'Yeah, I don't think natal men should be in women's spaces or sports.'
And remember that the vast majority of people agree with you, even if they're too scared to voice it.

timeisnotaline · 16/04/2022 10:14

I suggest, given it was a man making the comment, a slightly incredulous smile, and ‘Are you the office feminism expert now? Self appointed I presume- it certainly wasn’t by popular vote.’

twelly · 16/04/2022 10:31

I think OP this situation sums up how the majority who I believe have this view are silenced - the fear of losing jobs and employer action. I don't even believe that the employer in the majority of cases believe it but again they are frightened into this situation.
I feel strongly that an employer can tell you how to act but cannot tell you what to think.

Faffertea · 16/04/2022 10:38

“It’s funny how often that term is used by men against women isn’t it? But if being a TERF means I don’t think female prisoners should be locked in with male rapists who identify as women then so be it.”

Hopefully gives others around you an idea that what it means is an opinion shared by many people.

arethereanyleftatall · 16/04/2022 10:40

In fact your reaction op is everything that's wrong. This situation has become the Emperors New Clothes. No one wants to say 'but he's naked' or 'yup, I don't think men can become women' but almost everybody is thinking it.

ExMachinaDeus · 16/04/2022 14:33

I was called a TERF at work the other day.

That is pretty insulting & a term of abuse, simply for expressing an opinion on a writers' writing.

Given the outcome of Maya Forstater's hearing, you could well raise a grievance against the colleague who labelled you this way, or at the very least, if YOU are threatened with disciplinary proceedings, cite the Forstater case.

You are covered by the Equalities Act.

TheGreatATuin · 16/04/2022 17:14

@timeisnotaline

I suggest, given it was a man making the comment, a slightly incredulous smile, and ‘Are you the office feminism expert now? Self appointed I presume- it certainly wasn’t by popular vote.’
Ooh I like this one.
alreadytaken · 16/04/2022 17:28

I go with do you mean tired of explaining reality to fantasists - marginally more polite that the one quoted earlier.

MrsTerryPratchett · 16/04/2022 17:59

I tried all of the adult approaches suggested by Datun and others. I got:

I don't care about sports.
That's a straw man (about rape in prisons).
I don't fucking want to (about quoting me one transphobic line from JKR).
This is why I stay off Twitter because it's a cesspit (about everything else I said). I didn't like to tell him it's the radicalisation portal of toilet brushes, Boden and vipers. I stay off Twitter too.

At this point there was shouting. I'm still not speaking to him. I think it's because eve since I've known him he's done mothing for anyone while I've always been the right on person working to make the world better. He doesn't want to do the work, but proving I'm an arsehole negates it.

Original poster
flashpaper · 16/04/2022 19:43

@arethereanyleftatall

In fact your reaction op is everything that's wrong. This situation has become the Emperors New Clothes. No one wants to say 'but he's naked' or 'yup, I don't think men can become women' but almost everybody is thinking it.
I completely agree @arethereanyleftatall. I have had some short conversations with others about it, who all agree with the view that men cannot become women and should not be in female changing rooms, toilets, sports, prisons etc. Unfortunately, it's those who shout the loudest that get heard and I feel like this particular man would bellow.
OP posts:
Original poster
flashpaper · 16/04/2022 19:46

@ExMachinaDeus

I was called a TERF at work the other day.

That is pretty insulting & a term of abuse, simply for expressing an opinion on a writers' writing.

Given the outcome of Maya Forstater's hearing, you could well raise a grievance against the colleague who labelled you this way, or at the very least, if YOU are threatened with disciplinary proceedings, cite the Forstater case.

You are covered by the Equalities Act.

Thank you @ExMachinaDeus This is what I said to my DP. The views I hold are protected, I shouldn't imagine I'd get fired for saying that I didn't believe that JKR said anything wrong. He worries, understandably. He doesn't want, and I don't want to be another of those women who are "cancelled" and dragged through the mud for expressing facts.
OP posts:
ExMachinaDeus · 16/04/2022 20:07

and I don't want to be another of those women who are "cancelled" and dragged through the mud for expressing facts.

I’ve been there (although I wasn’t permitted to speak publicly about my experience) and it is really tough. You feel as though your whole character and professional life is being undermined. I don’t know how Ms Forstater coped (although I think she had family support; I don’t).

It happened to me before the Forstater appeal, so I couldn’t cite that. But you can.

Your colleague sounds like a male chauvinist prig.

DaSilvaP · 06/12/2022 19:13

Not sure how many would get it, but

"you would have made for a good Red Guard leading 'criticism and self-criticism' sessions under Mao"

would have been a well deserved reply.

Or something that usually gets the point pretty effectively:

"would you care to write that down, date and sign?"