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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Helen Joyce "we should stop saying 'trans'"

128 replies

ChopinBoard · 06/04/2022 08:38

Helen Joyce is on absolutely top form, and seems to have zero shits left to give:

"We should stop saying 'trans', we should start saying 'male'".

I'm inclined to agree: our position is much easier to understand if we stop using language which obfuscates the problem.

Buy her book Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality, if you haven't already

OP posts:
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 07/04/2022 11:41

Just wanted to re-up a classic and (I hope) prescient Barracker post:

The landscape is changing. I can't say how long it will take, but people are starting to assert absolute boundaries and reject the legal and ethical principle that a person can change from male to female and vice versa.

This will not reverse. It will grow, and it will reach an inevitable conclusion. The UK is looking very likely to be the fulcrum of change, and then the balance will shift back everywhere.

You can't stop this. All you can do is look to the future. It would be in your best interests to view this short period of history where we as a society mistakenly allowed a lie to temporarily be forced upon others, as a short-lived and unsustainable 'faux-solution' to a problem. That faux solution will be replaced with something else based upon a real and ethical foundation, and society will no longer accept 'sex changes' in any way.

Your best bet is to align yourself with what is coming. That so called [legal fiction] sex changes are a finite blip in history, that they obstruct a real solution to inequality, and that they should be self limiting, and should be drawn to a close.

If you support the end of this era of forced pretending, and work with those who are ushering in a new era of real women's rights, then I think it is possible that the few individuals who have already gained legal recognition as the opposite sex will continue to be honoured as their legal status. A grandfather clause is a real possibility, one that accepts those men are a product of their time, but draws a line behind them and does perpetuate the problem further.

I think this is a concession that might be negotiated from women, perhaps, if we saw that the door was finally closing on the redefinition of women and their rights.

It's just my opinion. But this is where I think we'll end up.

Whether that grandfather clause will come to pass or not I cant know.

I know what I would do in your shoes. And it isn't doubling down on 'I'm prepared to negotiate women's own boundaries with them'. It's 'I get it. It needs to stop now. Where do I go from here' [Italics my addition for clarity.}

DameHelena · 07/04/2022 11:58

On Jamie Wallis, oh, he has certainly got his bit about being transgender out there in public to a) get ahead of any trouble arising from his past actions and b) make himself more electable (or less easy to dis-elect anyway).

VelvetChairGirl · 07/04/2022 13:57

@nepeta

I was reading some trans-Twitter threads last night. Funnily enough, they were discussing what they should call terfs when some terfs are not actually feminist and so on.

It was interesting in a slightly horrible way. I learned, for instance, that 'gender critical' feminists want all women to be pregnant, barefoot, and in the kitchen, that they support outdated sex roles, and that they want to kill all transgender and non-binary people. Also, gender critical feminists are fascists and Nazis and bigots, of course.

So who gets to name whom? And who gets to un-name whom? The language in this area is now almost impossibly fuzzy so that debating issues (if it is ever allowed) is like trying to pin the tail on the donkey.

sounds about right, I got called a transphobic, racist, homophobic, brexit voting immigrant hater the other day on facebook just for saying women are entitled to rights too.

bit of a laugh that, it all came from the same deranged person in a "i know your type" kind of way and then started reeling all that off in complete seriousness.

news to me, I voted labour until starmer took over (took a break when blair was in too as he's a centrist) and I certainly didnt vote brexit, never bought the daily mail etc.

what has happened to people now days that when you disagree on one thing they start imagining you embody everything they disagree with it really is very bizarre and no way to conduct yourself as a person in this life, they must have very high levels of mental health problems with such odd thinking patterns.

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