Ahem.... FWR headlines in the Mail

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Mail have picked up this thread about the wonderful Women Uniting organisation and done an article about us!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10682139/Mumsnet-readers-rally-campaign-protect-womens-rights.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4518855-Maya-Forstater-on-front-page-of-Daily-Mail

Labour opened the door. I don't know how they can be surprised that the Conservatives walked right on through. We have been telling Labour for years about our concerns, they didn't want to listen and basically told us to fuck off. It really is up to them to sort themselves out.

That's great! Love the usernames being quoted in the paper

The DM has been fantastic on this issue and over the past few years I've gone from being a rabid DM-hater to quite a fan.

Hopefully the Guardian (and the Labour party) will save women from the tribulations of having to read the DM by starting to listen to women instead of dismissing all concerns as bigotry and punishing women for speaking. There's a novel idea for them - democracy and free speech.

Until then we'll just have to struggle with reading the politically impure media that allows us to speak freely. What a dilemma.

It's a bit like being stranded on a deserted island, dying of thirst and hunger, and then a ship appears in the horizon. It's our ship, it will rescue us!

But it chooses to sail past, knowing that doing that will make us suffer.

Another ship appears in the horizon. It's their ship! It's a bad ship. But it stops, picks us up and gives us food and water. What to do?

I wish they'd quoted some of the dinosaur username changes just after David Lammy's ridiculous statement. Might have had some impact

I too am green with envy at getting a text from Datun

@MrsWooster I am not saying preserving women only spaces does fuck all for women, but I do not think the Tories are motivated by doing anything to help women. I think they are making a lot of this in order to stoke culture wars, encourage division and encourage women to vote for them. I think the issue is being used by the Tories - the Tories do not give a fuck about women full stop. They are using this issue as they would use any issue.

Just wondering what you think the motivations are of labour in silencing women's voices carefullycourageous? Or the guardian for that matter?
It tells me very clearly how they view women and women's rights. What does it tell you?

Where has the term culture wars come from? It seems to be around a lot all of a sudden not sure why this topic gets it as a descriptor.

I don’t see it as that, more that an issue is important to me and one party is ignoring that pretty well and has been for a while.

I’d also say this is something that has been pushed up by every day women - on here and elsewhere rather than stirred and forced upon us.

If you compare the posts on here it’s been prevalent for ages - and it’s taken time for any media to notice.

Where has the term culture wars come from?

I don't know the actual origins but I've taken it as a partial homage to C P Snow's Two Cultures Rede Lecture.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Cultures

Where has the term culture wars come from?

It has been widely discussed in political science for many years.

It is strategic and nothing to do with caring about the issues, but rather exploiting issues to divide everyone into us and them.

The Tories don't give a shit about women's rights, but in this issue they have found a way to counter their traditional problem attracting female voters, without having to pledge a penny of public spending on women's issues.

Why don’t Labour listen a bit more to the same?

I feel pretty ignored as a woman by them. I can’t see that’s at all good.

The Tories don't give a shit about women's rights

And..... What's your point? You think Labour gives a shit?
Women should sit back and not make use of every means possible to secure their rights that are being thrown away in front of their eyes?

@NonnyMouse1337

The Tories don't give a shit about women's rights

And..... What's your point? You think Labour gives a shit?
Women should sit back and not make use of every means possible to secure their rights that are being thrown away in front of their eyes?

You can read what my point is by reading my posts

My point is that the Tories have no principled attachment to the stance they are taking, it is a convenient issue for them.

If you have a point to make about Labour please go ahead and make it.

I personally think that the Daily Mail is using this issue as the only available way to counter the fact that Johnson has a very considerable problem with women voters, and the local elections are coming.

Johnson's polling with women voters is worse than Tory average. It has been identified as a real problem for him in terms of both these locals and any future GE.

If you have a point to make about Labour please go ahead and make it.

Women have been making the point about Labour for 5 pages in this thread. So stop pretending and weaseling your way out of it.

My point is that the Tories have no principled attachment to the stance they are taking, it is a convenient issue for them.

And Labour are exactly the same. They crow about caring about all those poor, poor marginalised women - especially those with darker skin - they really love those, don't they? But those same women are bigots if they find themselves in prison with rapists and pedophiles, or can't go to swimming pools and other places because males are using communal changing rooms and toilets, or can't access rape and domestic violence services because males are there too.

Your faux concern is tedious.

Women will use whatever means is available to secure their rights. If the Tories can be manipulated into doing this - fine by me.

I can't stand the tories. I've never voted for them and Johnson is a walking embarrassment as PM.
But labour bully and threaten women, have flat earther policies about science (follow the science about covid but all gender woowoo about men magically turning into women) and have openly threatened and intimidated countless good labour supporting women.
Why do you think this is carefullycourageous ?

The Tories don't give a shit about women's rights, but in this issue they have found a way to counter their traditional problem attracting female voters, without having to pledge a penny of public spending on women's issues.

Nailed it. (Labour voter with nobody to vote for here)
All the parties are infuriatingly shit on this issue. This whole issue has grown to such epic proportions on the Tories’ negligent watch.

The Tories do seem to be trying to attract votes from women. I’m thinking about the women’s health strategy, apparently publishing sometime in 2022.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-vision-for-the-womens-health-strategy-for-england
This will give them some good woman-friendly headlines closer to the next general election. Still not clear if any of it comes with any new, ringfenced money though.

@NonnyMouse1337

If you have a point to make about Labour please go ahead and make it.

Women have been making the point about Labour for 5 pages in this thread. So stop pretending and weaseling your way out of it.

My point is that the Tories have no principled attachment to the stance they are taking, it is a convenient issue for them.

And Labour are exactly the same. They crow about caring about all those poor, poor marginalised women - especially those with darker skin - they really love those, don't they? But those same women are bigots if they find themselves in prison with rapists and pedophiles, or can't go to swimming pools and other places because males are using communal changing rooms and toilets, or can't access rape and domestic violence services because males are there too.

Your faux concern is tedious.

Women will use whatever means is available to secure their rights. If the Tories can be manipulated into doing this - fine by me.

@NonnyMouse1337 You have been overly personal, I really don't think it is necessary. This is the worst thing - just attacking any woman who does not agree with you.

I completely reject your claim my posts are 'faux concern'? I am a woman, women's rights are really bloody important to me.

My point is women are not doing the manipulating, they are being manipulated by a party pretending to care about this issue.

All the parties are infuriatingly shit on this issue. This whole issue has grown to such epic proportions on the Tories’ negligent watch. Yes I agree.

The Tories have an 80 seat majority. If they really cared they could resolve this issue. They do not want to resolve it, they want to keep everyone distracted and jumping and stressed while they destroy women's life chances at every opportunity.

They are playing this issue like a fiddle.

The Daily Mail has been good on this for years. Sue Reid wrote an article about how easy it was for children to buy testosterone/estrogen online back in 2018.

I completely reject your claim my posts are 'faux concern'? I am a woman, women's rights are really bloody important to me.

If women's rights are really bloody important to you, then I'd suggest you spend more time engaging with the Labour Party instead of lecturing us here - as if we don't know what the Tories are like.

Get the Labour Party to understand that prioritising the wishes of men, including rapists and pedophiles, over the needs of women is not a vote winner.

It's very revealing that posters always come on these kinds of threads to tell women it's their fault for looking for ways to secure their rights, rather than actually dealing with the real issue - that Labour are happy to use and abuse women as it suits them.
Why is Labour not holding the Conservative government to account for letting rapists in women's prisons?

@NonnyMouse1337

You are being unnecessarily unpleasant. I'm not lecturing you, I'm posting my views.

Please stop telling me what to do. I can post what I bloody well like, I am a free woman in a free country last time I checked.

carefullycourageous - and women are free to appreciate that papers like the DM are at least giving them a platform for their concerns, and free to not vote for Labour or vote for the Conservatives or not vote at all.

Every thread on this topic gets posters going on and on about how it's terrible that women are doing this. So yes, it's tedious and lecturing because I've never seen any willingness to acknowledge that it is Labour's responsibility to respect women and stand up for their rights. Votes will follow when they actually start giving a shit about us.

@NonnyMouse1337

carefullycourageous - and women are free to appreciate that papers like the DM are at least giving them a platform for their concerns, and free to not vote for Labour or vote for the Conservatives or not vote at all.

Every thread on this topic gets posters going on and on about how it's terrible that women are doing this. So yes, it's tedious and lecturing because I've never seen any willingness to acknowledge that it is Labour's responsibility to respect women and stand up for their rights. Votes will follow when they actually start giving a shit about us.

You seem to be treating me as though it is my job to apologise for Labour?

I think people are being played for fools by the Tories and the Daily Mail. They do not give a shit about me or my rights, they will rip them up another way as soon as look at me.

Oh wow, the Labour Party are here to save all women? Excellent. How are they going to do that exactly?