Ahem.... FWR headlines in the Mail

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Mail have picked up this thread about the wonderful Women Uniting organisation and done an article about us!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10682139/Mumsnet-readers-rally-campaign-protect-womens-rights.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4518855-Maya-Forstater-on-front-page-of-Daily-Mail

Good luck with the Telegraph, peonyred. I tried it for Suzanne Moore and their excellent women's sport coverage, but I couldn't take the relentless NHS bashing (not that I think the NHS is perfect, by a long shot, but the Telegraph push to privatise isn't in anyone's interests).

Keep plugging away on the BTL comments. When I first subscribed to the Times, about 5 years, ago, virtually no one got the importance of GC issues. Articles about TRAs got two types of response: incredulity or blaming the women. It was either "It reminds me of that sketch in Life of Brian" (Really? What an original observation) or "Serves you feminists right, for demanding equality". But a few posters kept plugging away, backing up the wonderful, brave Janice Turner and her colleagues and, gradually, the tide turned. Between us, the GC journalists and commentators have peaked almost the entire Times readership 💪

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Good luck with the Telegraph, peonyred. I tried it for Suzanne Moore and their excellent women's sport coverage, but I couldn't take the relentless NHS bashing (not that I think the NHS is perfect, by a long shot, but the Telegraph push to privatise isn't in anyone's interests).

Keep plugging away on the BTL comments. When I first subscribed to the Times, about 5 years, ago, virtually no one got the importance of GC issues. Articles about TRAs got two types of response: incredulity or blaming the women. It was either "It reminds me of that sketch in Life of Brian" (Really? What an original observation) or "Serves you feminists right, for demanding equality". But a few posters kept plugging away, backing up the wonderful, brave Janice Turner and her colleagues and, gradually, the tide turned. Between us, the GC journalists and commentators have peaked almost the entire Times readership 💪

That's so right MissLucy Recent events have dragged even the most reluctant men into the fold BTL with the sports page readers being incandescent. Pippa Yorke's misjudged article at the weekend was greeted with a fierce response from almost every commentator.

Or does it only matter with people you like

Shit , I dont like anyone. Now what?

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

Good luck with the Telegraph, peonyred. I tried it for Suzanne Moore and their excellent women's sport coverage, but I couldn't take the relentless NHS bashing (not that I think the NHS is perfect, by a long shot, but the Telegraph push to privatise isn't in anyone's interests).

Keep plugging away on the BTL comments. When I first subscribed to the Times, about 5 years, ago, virtually no one got the importance of GC issues. Articles about TRAs got two types of response: incredulity or blaming the women. It was either "It reminds me of that sketch in Life of Brian" (Really? What an original observation) or "Serves you feminists right, for demanding equality". But a few posters kept plugging away, backing up the wonderful, brave Janice Turner and her colleagues and, gradually, the tide turned. Between us, the GC journalists and commentators have peaked almost the entire Times readership 💪

It is a grim place, but actually I've found the Times is home to more TRAs.

It is the polar opposite of the pro-natural, anti-big-business, suspicious-of-big-pharma, wary of American politics and influence Left that I grew up in. It tells children and young people who are autistic, neurodiverse, homosexual or simply going through the usual anxieties and pressures of adolescence that they are wrong and need fixing, c/o a billion dollar industry with White House backing that will keep mining their bodies and minds for life. And all based around the reintroduction and enforcement of the sort of regressive gender stereotypes we thought we'd seen the back of in the1960s. And it has given carte blanche to the worst public and institutional misogyny in the West in recent memory. Left wing, my arse.

Yes, that's what I can't get my head around. Why are adults who know what leftwing means going along with this? I can understand that blue-haired teens have fallen for the latest fad, and know nothing about leftwing politics because they've never encountered it. But why didn't the adults explain, early on, before this pernicious creed took hold?

Keep plugging away on the BTL comments.

Which is, as all us ex or current readers/subscribers know, is nigh-on-impossible on the Guardian. You will be zapped in a second by the mods, and possibly kicked off altogether. Women really, really don’t matter there.

Somehow Liberal and Libertarian got confused?

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

It is the polar opposite of the pro-natural, anti-big-business, suspicious-of-big-pharma, wary of American politics and influence Left that I grew up in. It tells children and young people who are autistic, neurodiverse, homosexual or simply going through the usual anxieties and pressures of adolescence that they are wrong and need fixing, c/o a billion dollar industry with White House backing that will keep mining their bodies and minds for life. And all based around the reintroduction and enforcement of the sort of regressive gender stereotypes we thought we'd seen the back of in the1960s. And it has given carte blanche to the worst public and institutional misogyny in the West in recent memory. Left wing, my arse.

Yes, that's what I can't get my head around. Why are adults who know what leftwing means going along with this? I can understand that blue-haired teens have fallen for the latest fad, and know nothing about leftwing politics because they've never encountered it. But why didn't the adults explain, early on, before this pernicious creed took hold?

I don’t really know the answer to this but I think social media is the biggest influence. People are very easily manipulated. Look at how Russia tries to influence British politics including the Brexit vote.

We are a world away from the 1970s and 80s being a much more mobile and secular population. With advent of cheap package holidays, many people have ventured out of their back yard.

America now a massive influence on us due to social media. American cultural values seem endemic within the U.K. and American views are often more polarised. Trans people over there are fighting for their rights, therefore they must be here and so forth with younger generations assimilating American lexicon.

With these polarised views and enough people saying it, older generations are being influenced too. We live much longer nowadays with decent nutrition and heat. There isn’t the big cut off between the older and younger generations that we used to see, where people started to be both regarded and saw themselves as older and rigid thinkers in their 50s and retired by 60 with their pipe and slippers or blue rinses… ok that last bit is perhaps an exaggeration. But there is definitely a different vibe to being 50/60 these days.

I meant to say. This is amazing news. And congratulations on being famous in the press!

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

It is the polar opposite of the pro-natural, anti-big-business, suspicious-of-big-pharma, wary of American politics and influence Left that I grew up in. It tells children and young people who are autistic, neurodiverse, homosexual or simply going through the usual anxieties and pressures of adolescence that they are wrong and need fixing, c/o a billion dollar industry with White House backing that will keep mining their bodies and minds for life. And all based around the reintroduction and enforcement of the sort of regressive gender stereotypes we thought we'd seen the back of in the1960s. And it has given carte blanche to the worst public and institutional misogyny in the West in recent memory. Left wing, my arse.

Yes, that's what I can't get my head around. Why are adults who know what leftwing means going along with this? I can understand that blue-haired teens have fallen for the latest fad, and know nothing about leftwing politics because they've never encountered it. But why didn't the adults explain, early on, before this pernicious creed took hold?

Yeah, it's no coincidence that all the gender bollocks is coming from the US, which has never had a left-wing mainstream party, or grassroots working-class movements as powerful as those in Europe.

Identity politics seems like an easy win for politicians. What a great way to distract voters from socio-economic disparity. Let's convince Millenials that they can't buy a house because a Boomer grandparent wants a spare bedroom, not because they have been shafted by a kleptocracy of billionaires. Let's get voters to argue about anything, as long as it isn't socio-economic class.

The DM, MoS and MailOnline have covered the Gender Wars for several years now (at least as far back as the Man Fridays in 2018). Every outrage that we share on here and elsewhere has been picked up by them. They publish articles by people like Maya, Kathleen Stock, Jenni Murray, Julie Bindel. They publish pictures of wom,en accused of male crimes that make their natal sex clear.

They amplify our voices.

Sorry meant "women" accused of male crimes.

They amplify our voices.

And we do their research for them!

Sanchez Manning in particular has been great. Journalists on tabloids tend not to get the same recognition as those on broadsheets, but she has been writing good articles alongside Janice Turner in The Times and James Kirkup in the Spectator from the getgo.

Chapeau!

Great post MissLucy

Let's get voters to argue about anything, as long as it isn't socio-economic class.
This is totally plausible, a political tactic that’s much easier to do in this age of social media and information overload. We need to be alert to protect democratic values and our democracy so that we can have debate and still be cohesive enough to resist authoritarianism together, wherever it comes from.

@MattDillonsEyebrows

Daily Mail is the new Quibbler!

Arf

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

There’s nothing left wing about the me-me-me gender identity movement. God knows why so many on the Left have fallen for its self-centred misogynistic fantasies. (Social Dems and Communists honourably excepted.)

And, as a socialist, I now have a lot more respect for the Mail and the Times, than for the Guardian, because on this important issue the Mail and Times are a hell of a lot more honest.

One US survey found that transgender individuals placed further to the right in politics than we might expect from where the political parties stand on the issues. I don't recall the exact numbers, but socially conservative values were somewhat more common among transgender respondents than among the rest of those surveyed.

The old divisions are not as clear-cut here as I would have expected. The same might apply to the newspapers. The Mail has always been terrible on feminism and women's presumed biological natures, and they are unlikely to have changed overnight. Their motives in publishing here are not the same as ours, but right now they at least provide some sunlight. We can continue fighting them on their sexism and misogyny, while acknowledging that they are among the few outlets which publish gender critical views.

Shall all the left-leaning women who are sick of the Guardian ignoring this issue, write a letter to the Ed to tell them that, for publication? Maybe the three campaigning orgs could draft it and we could all sign it? Ditto the Independent? Newspapers don’t tend to ignore stories of proven huge reader interest for very long, so today could be a really good day to do this.

Great idea, Slothtoes. I’d sign it.

It is still odd that the Mail coverage over recent weeks has been so turbo charged.

Could it be linked to the LGBT++++ conference that Boris had planned for the summer, presumably linked to a raft of LGBT+ announcements. The Mail ups the ante, ensuring that it’s naturally GC readers are aware of the issues. Boris reins back on his plans, upsetting Stonewall in the process, and Labour can’t make too much fuss because they know their line is not popular with many of their traditional voters.

With a bit of inwardness in that the person in No 10 seen as Stonewalls (and Carries) key ally seems not to have the Mail on his side. In a three way fight for Tory leadership between Boris, Rishi and Liz, I think the Mail would plump for Liz, who as equalities minister has done a good job of rowing back some of the extraordinary influence a single lobbying group, Stonewall, has had in Whitehall.

@Needmoresleep

It is still odd that the Mail coverage over recent weeks has been so turbo charged.

Could it be linked to the LGBT++++ conference that Boris had planned for the summer, presumably linked to a raft of LGBT+ announcements. The Mail ups the ante, ensuring that it’s naturally GC readers are aware of the issues. Boris reins back on his plans, upsetting Stonewall in the process, and Labour can’t make too much fuss because they know their line is not popular with many of their traditional voters.

With a bit of inwardness in that the person in No 10 seen as Stonewalls (and Carries) key ally seems not to have the Mail on his side. In a three way fight for Tory leadership between Boris, Rishi and Liz, I think the Mail would plump for Liz, who as equalities minister has done a good job of rowing back some of the extraordinary influence a single lobbying group, Stonewall, has had in Whitehall.

It is because the Daily mail supports the Tories in the local elections, local election campaigns launched last week, Daily Mail wants to distract people with culture wars instead of:

• Johnson is a liar
• Partygate
• Corruption and sleaze
• Cost of living
• Johnson is a liar

This issue is a useful one for the DM, it does not give a fuck about women's rights really but it is useful at this time.

It is because the Daily mail supports the Tories in the local elections, local election campaigns launched last week, Daily Mail wants to distract people with culture wars instead of:
Johnson is a liar
- Partygate
- Corruption and sleaze

• Cost of living*

- Johnson is a liar This issue is a useful one for the DM, it does not give a fuck about women's rights really but it is useful at this time.

Yes, this seems much more likely.

I think it is disgusting that the Tories are using this issue to inflame disagreements and wage yet another culture war, the Tories do not give a flying fuck about any women's issues, ceratinly not:

• Equal pay
• VAWG
• Rape conviction rate

etc., etc.

This is just a fucking convenient way of stirring up anti-Labour sentiment whilst doing fuck all for women in real life.

Sorry for the over-use of 'fuck' and 'fucking'

It is not possible to overstate how much I despair at the dreadful record of this government on women's issues.

I see this as finally getting sunlight

Even the mn feminism board is part of the overall push back, many have been talking about it for a while

@carefullycourageous

I think it is disgusting that the Tories are using this issue to inflame disagreements and wage yet another culture war, the Tories do not give a flying fuck about any women's issues, ceratinly not:

• Equal pay
• VAWG
• Rape conviction rate

etc., etc.

This is just a fucking convenient way of stirring up anti-Labour sentiment whilst doing fuck all for women in real life.

I agree with a lot of what you say EXCEPT the part which implies that keeping single sex spaces does “fuck all for women”. Unless we can define ourselves and defend our rights, we truly are fucked.