Ahem.... FWR headlines in the Mail

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

The Mail have picked up this thread about the wonderful Women Uniting organisation and done an article about us!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10682139/Mumsnet-readers-rally-campaign-protect-womens-rights.html

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4518855-Maya-Forstater-on-front-page-of-Daily-Mail

Thank you EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
I cancelled my paid for Guardian subscription some years ago when it became evident that they were "making the news" about trans issues and deliberately silencing women's vices. Frankly I'm that so many openly accept these levels of deliberate misinformation and censorship from their preferred news source. If they openly lie and silence democratic views, what else are they deliberately censoring??

When The Guardian starts caring about women's rights instead of joining in the throwing of us under the bus, and apologises to the women of Calais for blaming them for their own sexual assaults...then we ca talk.

When The 'Independent' starts caring about women's rights again instead of actively undermining them, and stops employing a transwoman who has 'joked' on twitter about rubbing their penis all over the toilets door handles and peeing all over the toilet seats, not to mention comparing women to sex dolls...then we can talk.

The daily mail has turned my dad. He's argued against the me too movement, is hugely misogynistic, and his answer to my comment a few years ago that every woman I knew had been affected by the issues in me too was to get furious that I was accusing him of assaulting mum.

The trans conversation a couple of years ago was ugly. Think 'women should stop making a fuss'...

Yesterday we spoke for almost 2 hours and he's horrified. He listened to everything, asked lots and lots of questions. His attitude now is 'what do I need to do to stop this and protect my granddaughters'. He's about to start spreading the word.

We covered (not in this order)...
Karen White, the webberleys, the california spa, politicians being asked what is a woman, lia Thomas (who has been the big awakening in this house), Emily Bridges, Owen Jones, Alison Bailey, the guides, schools and why my child is in a single sex school when I've always been anti single sex schools, maya forester, prisons, swimming pools, puberty blockers, agp, teen girls and middle aged men, pronouns, me and the kids dad not being able to say anything at work, the convertion therapy bill, a brief history of stonewall and current situation, marks and spencer, and on and on.

Do I wish all the papers were covering this? Of course.
But the biggest voting group is being turned on this because of papers like the daily mail and telegraph. It's making a real difference.

The DM is using this issue for their own ends and the fact these people are in the DM makes me think worse of them, not better.

Obviously it is still a paper with high circulation, but it is an extremely divisive paper and this simply entrenches this as a culture war issue, and also aligns it with party political issues around supporting the Tories.

@carefullycourageous

The DM is using this issue for their own ends and the fact these people are in the DM makes me think worse of them, not better.

Obviously it is still a paper with high circulation, but it is an extremely divisive paper and this simply entrenches this as a culture war issue, and also aligns it with party political issues around supporting the Tories.

If the Guardian had the guts to speak up for women’s sex-based rights we’d obviously be delighted. But they don’t.

@carefullycourageous

The DM is using this issue for their own ends and the fact these people are in the DM makes me think worse of them, not better.

Obviously it is still a paper with high circulation, but it is an extremely divisive paper and this simply entrenches this as a culture war issue, and also aligns it with party political issues around supporting the Tories.

That’s nice.

So why doesn’t The Guardian cover this topic accurately then?

The DM is using this issue for their own ends and the fact these people are in the DM makes me think worse of them, not better.

That's a you problem, not a them problem.

If they don't appear in the DM, then they don't reach the squillions of people who don't have that problem.

So the correct thing to do to get maximum reach is appear in the DM.

And the people who do have that problem aren't reading the DM anyway, right? And if you already know who they are, then you're not the target audience.

Thank goodness it's being reported somewhere.

However the issue with it being in the DM reinforces the belief that those opposed to transgender participation in womens sports etc. are middle aged/elderly and right wing. So may encourage more young people to be seen to be taking a different stance.

This topic has really shook the narrative that the left is inherently good and the right is bad. I know I have certainly been forced to look at my biases and I’m pleased I have the maturity to see I was wrong in some of my political views. Some people are in able of thinking about this, their views are so entrenched. A woman in our local womens group has left as she cannot stand that we engage with a range of politicians from all colours. The local Labour Party have consistently ignored us yet she thinks we shouldn’t speak to the Tories.

The DM is so hypocritical, they are bloody awful about and to women until it suits them, then they pretend to care

Yep, this
Daily Mail, the champion of women's rights.

There’s nothing left wing about the me-me-me gender identity movement. God knows why so many on the Left have fallen for its self-centred misogynistic fantasies. (Social Dems and Communists honourably excepted.)

And, as a socialist, I now have a lot more respect for the Mail and the Times, than for the Guardian, because on this important issue the Mail and Times are a hell of a lot more honest.

Where would people prefer this type of article? Ie which paper

I’m ok with DM as such a mainstream paper read by many,

@Nobbynobbsknob

The daily mail has turned my dad. He's argued against the me too movement, is hugely misogynistic, and his answer to my comment a few years ago that every woman I knew had been affected by the issues in me too was to get furious that I was accusing him of assaulting mum.

The trans conversation a couple of years ago was ugly. Think 'women should stop making a fuss'...

Yesterday we spoke for almost 2 hours and he's horrified. He listened to everything, asked lots and lots of questions. His attitude now is 'what do I need to do to stop this and protect my granddaughters'. He's about to start spreading the word.

We covered (not in this order)...
Karen White, the webberleys, the california spa, politicians being asked what is a woman, lia Thomas (who has been the big awakening in this house), Emily Bridges, Owen Jones, Alison Bailey, the guides, schools and why my child is in a single sex school when I've always been anti single sex schools, maya forester, prisons, swimming pools, puberty blockers, agp, teen girls and middle aged men, pronouns, me and the kids dad not being able to say anything at work, the convertion therapy bill, a brief history of stonewall and current situation, marks and spencer, and on and on.

Do I wish all the papers were covering this? Of course.
But the biggest voting group is being turned on this because of papers like the daily mail and telegraph. It's making a real difference.

Good work, Nobby! It shows that when honest people hear the whole story, they understand and support our cause. Well done for persevering.

Hope they pick up about the Sharon Davies tweet about the TA tweeting the female cyclist sponsors.

@carefullycourageous

The DM is using this issue for their own ends and the fact these people are in the DM makes me think worse of them, not better.

Obviously it is still a paper with high circulation, but it is an extremely divisive paper and this simply entrenches this as a culture war issue, and also aligns it with party political issues around supporting the Tories.

Newspapers. Using things for their own ends. Hmmm...

corruptionuncovered.wordpress.com/2015/07/03/michael-gillard-on-bent-cops-the-untouchables-investigative-journalism-and-the-guardian-2001-exposing-the-link-to-stephen-lawrence-and-daniel-morgan-murders/

That is excellent news @Nobbynobbsknob .

This comment made me laugh:

"I'm all for protecting our gender, but I can't stand Mumsnet, worst bunch of witches."

Yup, that's us!

I'm happy for the sunlight. I never realised that the Daily Mail was 'conservative', until I read it during my radicalisation, so it doesn't affect my ability to be happy that a newspaper is reporting this.

It does irk me that they write paragraphs like this:
"The campaign, which urges prospective councillors to reveal their stance on transgender issues before ballots are cast, comes after a number of senior Labour figures struggled to answer questions on the topic."

We are not asking people to believe or not believe, support or not support transgender issues we are asking that the existing rights of women are upheld and that sex matters. There is a conflict of rights but many people think they can't admit that as they will be seen as transphobic.
Men who say they are women do not belong in women's sports, prisons, refuges, girl guides etc.
The sooner we get rid of the mantra transwomen are women this will be better for all.

That's a good point FemaleAndLearning about their use of language. Again there's been a massive shift with this since they first started - much less of the "JKR criticised for anti trans views" to a more accurate use of language about women's rights. And they often wedge in additional issues at the end of the article like this one which mentions Stonewall's failed complaint about the EHRC at the end.:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10678117/Labour-MP-Rosie-Duffield-backs-campaign-protect-sex-based-rights-local-election.html

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

There’s nothing left wing about the me-me-me gender identity movement. God knows why so many on the Left have fallen for its self-centred misogynistic fantasies. (Social Dems and Communists honourably excepted.)

And, as a socialist, I now have a lot more respect for the Mail and the Times, than for the Guardian, because on this important issue the Mail and Times are a hell of a lot more honest.

It is the polar opposite of the pro-natural, anti-big-business, suspicious-of-big-pharma, wary of American politics and influence Left that I grew up in. It tells children and young people who are autistic, neurodiverse, homosexual or simply going through the usual anxieties and pressures of adolescence that they are wrong and need fixing, c/o a billion dollar industry with White House backing that will keep mining their bodies and minds for life. And all based around the reintroduction and enforcement of the sort of regressive gender stereotypes we thought we'd seen the back of in the1960s. And it has given carte blanche to the worst public and institutional misogyny in the West in recent memory. Left wing, my arse.

I’m a Labour voter all my life. I’m happy the Mail has picked this up story up again to reboot it with some quotes. I was delighted that they did the front page yesterday with the three campaigners on. The Mail are the most popular UK paper. They must have had a hell of lot of clicks on that original piece to bother doing this quick follow up piece. That’s something to celebrate.

Let’s not forget that this is a campaign. All people, however they vote, need to know that an unprecedented threat to women’s rights is going on. This is an all-women’s, cross-political-party issue. It’s also about letting men know the situation. I do agree that if it remains party-politicised, then we’re not going to get anywhere. There’s a Tory majority now but how long that will last, who knows? And what have the Tory government actually done for us anyway? Nothing. Kicked the GRA reform stuff into the future for now.

Right now individual women are desperately crowdfunding for legal cases to try to shore up the law for women and right wrongs to women that have all happened under the Tories. The Conservatives been in power since 2010, effectively.

This whole shit show has been under their watch. A government who gave a shit about women would not have let this happen. Yes Labour, Lib Dem’s, Greens and the other parties have been terrible too. We need to hold them all to account in different ways.

As we have discussed at length on other threads, there is no major political party who are actually solid on this issue. Including the Conservatives who are in government with a big majority.

We have had no solid commitments or guarantees of support for biological reality and anti-sexist action from any party.

We have a mountain to climb.

If the Mail achieves greater awareness among right-leaning women of this campaign then that’s an excellent thing.

It’s incredibly disappointing that the left wing press would rather validate male egos than listen to the completely valid safety, privacy and dignity concerns affecting 51% of the population, (plus the evidenced harms this is inflicting on women around their employment, single-sex medical care and the justice system - we could go on) but we are where we are with all of that, unfortunately.

Right now the urgency of this message is not reaching a huge section of society that don’t read the Daily Mail. That’s a problem that this campaign needs to tackle, not feeling pissed off that the Mail has picked up on it. This weekend’s coverage is excellent to have.

Shall all the left-leaning women who are sick of the Guardian ignoring this issue, write a letter to the Ed to tell them that, for publication? Maybe the three campaigning orgs could draft it and we could all sign it? Ditto the Independent? Newspapers don’t tend to ignore stories of proven huge reader interest for very long, so today could be a really good day to do this..

If people are happier with some papers eg The Guardian or other (?) it won’t reach across the spectrum re readers

Not that the Guardian will change and lead on this for women

@FemaleAndLearning

I'm happy for the sunlight. I never realised that the Daily Mail was 'conservative', until I read it during my radicalisation, so it doesn't affect my ability to be happy that a newspaper is reporting this.

It does irk me that they write paragraphs like this:
"The campaign, which urges prospective councillors to reveal their stance on transgender issues before ballots are cast, comes after a number of senior Labour figures struggled to answer questions on the topic."

We are not asking people to believe or not believe, support or not support transgender issues we are asking that the existing rights of women are upheld and that sex matters. There is a conflict of rights but many people think they can't admit that as they will be seen as transphobic.
Men who say they are women do not belong in women's sports, prisons, refuges, girl guides etc.
The sooner we get rid of the mantra transwomen are women this will be better for all.

Absolutely, Female Despite the earnest wish of many TRAs to centre trans issues in everything, this is about women and our rights. The more TWAW is revealed as a nonsense, the more this whole thing will be revealed as men trying to take women's rights. Again.

The relatively tiny issue of transmen feeling alienated by references to their female biology will hopefully be dealt with sensitively and proportionately.

@FemaleAndLearning

I'm happy for the sunlight. I never realised that the Daily Mail was 'conservative', until I read it during my radicalisation, so it doesn't affect my ability to be happy that a newspaper is reporting this.

It does irk me that they write paragraphs like this:
"The campaign, which urges prospective councillors to reveal their stance on transgender issues before ballots are cast, comes after a number of senior Labour figures struggled to answer questions on the topic."

We are not asking people to believe or not believe, support or not support transgender issues we are asking that the existing rights of women are upheld and that sex matters. There is a conflict of rights but many people think they can't admit that as they will be seen as transphobic.
Men who say they are women do not belong in women's sports, prisons, refuges, girl guides etc.
The sooner we get rid of the mantra transwomen are women this will be better for all.

Yes you see it echoed on here - many posts re ‘trans issues’ even weird, definitely minority tiny proportion

When it’s a women’s rights issue and is 51% so half the population not a tiny minority

I know people don’t get it when they post about trans issues