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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baroness Fox nails it

15 replies

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 09:45

Baroness Fox nails it: Labour’s tactic when answering ‘what is a woman’?

"People are actually frightened of speaking out. The abdication of leadership by the Labour party in refusing to give a lead on this. They're not even arguing a strong pro trans identity. What they're doing is EVADING the question and ACCUSING people..’WHY ARE YOU BEING TRIVIAL?’, why are you talking about penises, ‘I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT BODY PARTS’. And it’s like ‘well nobody wants to talk about body parts!!’, but when a woman is reduced to … when your described as ‘chest feeders’ and all these kind of things, the ‘cervix’ becomes a matter of national conversation, ‘uteruses’ and all the rest of it. When that.. actually we used to just go men and women right? We didn’t need to do that because we all knew what we were talking about. So I think it’s the COWARDICE OF THE LABOUR LEADERSHIP who won’t actually give a lead on this. And if they’re going to come out full trans identity supporters, they’ve not argued that clearly as well, so we can critique them. Don’t try and GASLIGHT the rest of us by saying ‘WE DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, WHY ARE YOU MAKING A FUSS?’, this is your culture wars obsession, this is a defining feature of politics, that politicians won’t say what they know to be true. And by the way, the Labour Party in particular is losing women activists hand over fist. And if you know anything about the Labour Party over the years, women activists have been the backbone of the Labour Party. They’ve been the organisers, always tougher in a way, the ones who really make things happen. The fact that those people are saying ‘I’m leaving this party, I’m not having anything to do with you, your lying, your lack of courage on this ’ And the real consequences are that women are now defensively trying to explain who they are and what their experience is as a woman. And it’s embarrassing. I don’t want to go, ‘do you know as a women, this is what happens’, do you know what I mean?”

OP posts:
DontAskIDontKnow · 31/03/2022 09:50

That’s a great statement, and really highlights the politicking that’s going on.

I think the leadership don’t think it’s important. Kier Starmer clearly hasn’t read anything about it and is just repeating what his advisors are telling him. He loves a fence, and there’s no fence in this.

NancyDrawed · 31/03/2022 10:17

And by the way, the Labour Party in particular is losing women activists hand over fist. And if you know anything about the Labour Party over the years, women activists have been the backbone of the Labour Party. They’ve been the organisers, always tougher in a way, the ones who really make things happen.

I had never really thought about this aspect of the women in Labour Party - being the organisers, the supporters behind the scenes. But it makes perfect sense! I don't know of a single heterosexual partnership in my social circle where the man of the couple does the family admin, the buying of cards and gifts, arranging of routine appointments etc. I wonder if it is a going to be a case of Labour suddenly realising how important women are to their party if/when the things that 'just happened' stop 'just happening'

NancyDrawed · 31/03/2022 10:18

Actually, not just in the Labour Party, I imagine it is the same across all political parties.

Torunette · 31/03/2022 10:35

@NancyDrawed

Actually, not just in the Labour Party, I imagine it is the same across all political parties.
It is.

Indeed, it is basically the same situation across all types of civic and community entities as well. 20% of the people do 80% of the work, and, usually, 80% of that 20% are female.

I see it within political parties, local government tiers, charities, and community organisations of all types.

FemaleAndLearning · 31/03/2022 10:35

That is a great statement. Do you have a link I would like to send to my safe seat labour MP as it articulates it really well.

Linguini · 31/03/2022 10:36

10:18 NancyDrawed

Not really, the Tories are sitting back and laughing at the LP meanwhile Boris has made this statement:

"when it comes to distinguishing between a man and a woman, the facts of biology remaining overwhelmingly important"

So everyone can trust the Tories to understand what a woman is, while labour are so far gone down the rabbit hole drunk on Kool Aid, they can't see the room let alone read it.

Rightsraptor · 31/03/2022 10:37

I was about to say the same thing, Nancy. Women make things happen. Seldom in a big fanfare 'look at what I've done' kind of way, but beavering around in the background.

We need to make them, all of them and of whatever political stripe, realise they can't do without us.

Linguini · 31/03/2022 10:38

Shit apologies NancyDrawed I though by "it" you meant the failure to say what a woman is. But you meant the membership involvement, not that.

Artichokeleaves · 31/03/2022 10:45

Well said that woman.

SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 31/03/2022 10:47

@Linguini, I do not trust the Tories on this either.

It is under a Tory government we have the Orwellian nightmare of women being sexually assaulted and raped by men in women's prisons and on women's hospital wards, the denigration of women and their concerns, the demise of free speech for women and a rise of bullying female academics.

There are many senior Conservatives who are all for self-ID, and who very nearly brought it about - and who continue to argue for it.

Johnson said some words. But where is the action?

DomesticatedZombie · 31/03/2022 11:02

YES! Thank you, Baroness.

DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 11:03

@FemaleAndLearning

That is a great statement. Do you have a link I would like to send to my safe seat labour MP as it articulates it really well.
sending this to Labour MP's is a bloody good idea. Might want to send the text. here's a clip of where it came from twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1509111514632011776
OP posts:
DERFDogmaExlusionary · 31/03/2022 11:05

TACTIC
evade, accuse of obsession with body parts and gaslight women that single-sex is a fuss about nothing

OP posts:
FemaleAndLearning · 31/03/2022 11:29

Thank you for the link.

Datun · 31/03/2022 12:02

This issue is not going anywhere. It's just getting more intense. They're going to have to start talking about body parts, the silly little penis havers and uterus owners.

Frankly, I don't blame them for stalling.

They're going to be exposed as promoting an ideology that is so batshit, it will be difficult for the electorate to believe.

We've all been there.

We've all encountered hard looks and scepticism when we say a convicted rapist has been put in a female prison. Or that because it's impossible to determine someone's sex, we should categorise by their thoughts instead.

Voters are really, really going to struggle once the ideology is properly explained.

No wonder they don't want to talk about it - they can't talk about it, because the only tactic that works is no debate.

Oops.

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