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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

He/They

113 replies

BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 17:32

Bloke at work, complaining that the new pronouns policy on forms etc isn’t inclusive enough (they/them and ‘other’ then write your own included with she/be etc) Because he is ‘non-conforming’ and uses he/they or him/ them and it’s very common in his ‘community’.

So I asked him how that works, as someone who is actually gay ( he’s white, straight, male appearing) I hadn’t come across he/they before. It was a genuine non-goady question.
He said he’s happy with being addressed as either and chooses which he’ll use on the day. And that if on the day he’s being ‘they’ it would be nice if people noticed and used ‘they’.

Is this a thing now? Or is he just saying call me anything but she/her???

OP posts:
MangyInseam · 31/03/2022 19:22

Yes, I read an essay but some tool who was a she/they or he/they (can't remember) and was insistent that people needed to vary them, and not just choose one and use it all the time,and that it should be in some reasonable proportion (using the word reasonable in the widest possible sense where it actually has no meaning.) Because the pronoun use somehow had to reflect this individual's inner world which was sometimes more masculine and sometimes more feminine and just using "they" all the time did't signal validation (my words.)

KittenKong · 31/03/2022 19:41

It reminds me of people who proudly announce that they have Synesthesia - ‘Wednesday is yellow!’ Then next day ‘Wednesday is… hmmm… brown? No 3…’.

Ditto people who say they have a photographic memory…

BorisBooster · 03/04/2022 22:58

He/ him
She/ her
They / them
Twit / twat

nepeta · 03/04/2022 23:50

Wonder what non-binaries do when the language doesn't have separate pronouns for the third person singular...

It sounds like a way to bully others, to demand a daily check on pronouns. Won't make this person a popular colleague.

Datun · 04/04/2022 00:42

@Babdoc

Prelate great idea, but I would go one better. Call the whole department to the daily meeting, earnestly ask every single one what their pronouns are today, and what special recognition each of them need. Wait and see how long it takes for mutiny and common sense to prevail! And how soon before the no longer “special one” flounces…
Also get your own individual made up pronouns printed with a column showing each day of the week and which ones to use on each day.

Get it copied and laminated and hand them out. Whenever this person wants to talk to you smilingly make sure they consult their card first.

Send round periodic updates.

viques · 04/04/2022 00:43

won’t make this person a popular colleague I have a sneaking suspicion they/he/it weren’t/wasn’t a popular colleague anyway. The pronoun nonsense is final incontrovertible proof.

SignOnTheWindow · 04/04/2022 00:56

For a straight white male, very slightly changing the pronouns you ask people to use about you is a quick and easy way to take a long ladder up the snakes and ladders board. Lo and behold! You've gone from 'scum of the earth' to 'can do no wrong'.

SignOnTheWindow · 04/04/2022 01:04

Straight white man? Changing your pronouns ever so slightly (but nothing else) lands you huge long ladder, taking you allll the way up the snakes and ladders oppression board to the top row, where you can do no wrong.

ArcheryAnnie · 04/04/2022 01:13

@BloodyloveGeorge

iS this just him though??? Like I said I am actuallly gay and haven’t come across this although I do know lots of gays, lesbians and trans people.
I can trump this - I came across a genuine "we/she/they" in the wild. From an actual adult with a real job who had it as her email signature. What the everloving fuck it means is anyones guess.

/is also a bender, and fed up with it all.

BruceAndNosh · 04/04/2022 01:21

So bloke's colleagues have to miraculously divine whether it's a He day or a They day?
At least Pips Bunce dons a natty hair clip to let everyone knows she's Pippa today.

Jessasamantha · 04/04/2022 06:42

I have a colleague like this. Not only are his pronouns in his email signature but in his actual name as it appears in my email inbox eg John Smith He/They. He is a mature adult who is very well respected in his field but I cannot take him seriously after this show of narcissism and cringe whenever I see it, I am absolutely sure I am not the only one who thinks less of him for it.

nldnmum02 · 04/04/2022 07:00

We need to find an alternative to ‘they’ in the English language because it’s plural and just sounds daft. Or like you’re talking about someone with multiple personality syndrome.

VeganGod · 04/04/2022 07:12

Honestly, I‘d tell him that I had work to be getting on with and that wasn’t to validate him. Even if people are happy to try to use individuals pronouns, it becomes ridiculous when they change daily and you just have to draw a line and stop walking on eggshells. If someone wants pronouns that aren’t sex based, I just use their name. My friend worked with someone that changed their name from day to day, as they were gender fluid and in the end just avoided talking to him. I can’t say I blame her.

MrsJamin · 04/04/2022 07:13

Who has time or inclination every work day to enquire about someone else's pronouns? Also surely that person isn't there when you use them, so someone else would need to know what the Pronoun Of The Day is to know if you got it right or wrong? Seriously I have no time for this kind of bullshit in my working day.

Shortpoet · 04/04/2022 07:20

What would happen if you send an email on Monday saying “Bruno will do the report, they says it will take a week.

But Bruno doesn’t read the email until Wednesday, which is a “he” day? Have you committed literal violence by misgendering?

lovelyweathertoday · 04/04/2022 07:53

I can trump this - I came across a genuine "we/she/they" in the wild. From an actual adult with a real job who had it as her email signature. What the everloving fuck it means is anyones guess.

What's hilarious about this is that your simple use of "her" tells me that this is a woman.

So far I've only seen "he/him" at work. By blokes in their 50s with traditional English male names like John and Paul. I think they think they are being kind and inclusive. I think they're being ridiculous. It helps me know at work who is particularly gullible.

Annette32123 · 04/04/2022 07:58

@elferian

lots of people do this, often because they suffer with dysphoria and it is upsetting for them to put down he/him yet they get it is ridiculous to put down she/her if you are male.

Fine if you don't like pronouns, but really they are all over the place now and why not let people be, it is harmless.

How is it ‘harmless’ if he is whining about training materials referencing men and women in relation to discrimination against women? It’s anything but harmless if some HR person bows down and tries to adapt the materials to satisfy the loudest whinger - you know as well as I do that the resulting message will change from an initiative on women in leadership to the lack of him/they trans people in leadership because at the moment it isn’t sufficiently centring him/they!
Mummyoflittledragon · 04/04/2022 08:54

If it’s nothing to you @elferian, that’s great. But this all sounds very scary.

As someone, who has had several years of therapy to unravel my life and who has worked very hard to get out of the state of constant hyperarousal, we are not all the same.

Just because I am quiet about my suffering irl, it doesn’t mean my past and actually my present, do not exist. Why does the mental health of people, demanding to be called certain pronouns when they’re not even around, trump mine?

It is not harmless and let people be should be equally applied, not just to those demanding to control others but also to those, like myself, they are attempting to control.

DoubleTweenQueen · 04/04/2022 08:58

@BloodyloveGeorge You sure he wasn't pulling your leg?
Bonkers.

TheWeeDonkey · 04/04/2022 09:06

I can't get over how your workplace diversity champion is a straight white male. Plus ca change 🤦

FrancescaContini · 04/04/2022 09:20

@lovelyweathertoday

I can trump this - I came across a genuine "we/she/they" in the wild. From an actual adult with a real job who had it as her email signature. What the everloving fuck it means is anyones guess.

What's hilarious about this is that your simple use of "her" tells me that this is a woman.

So far I've only seen "he/him" at work. By blokes in their 50s with traditional English male names like John and Paul. I think they think they are being kind and inclusive. I think they're being ridiculous. It helps me know at work who is particularly gullible.

Not just gullible but - let’s be frank - also very thick.
FrancescaContini · 04/04/2022 09:21

@Shortpoet

What would happen if you send an email on Monday saying “Bruno will do the report, they says it will take a week.

But Bruno doesn’t read the email until Wednesday, which is a “he” day? Have you committed literal violence by misgendering?

Grin The poor grammar alone is a headache.
BruceAndNosh · 04/04/2022 09:41

I wonder if non English speakers eg French find this easier as they are used to knowing that a chair is feminine, but an armchair is masculine

jkrfan · 04/04/2022 09:45

@PermanentTemporary

I'm reminded of Gwen Raverat writing about her phenomenally rich and under-employed aunts who would do things like ring for a servant to put a silk scarf over one foot as one foot was very slightly colder than the other.

He's essentially signalling that he's a sensitive soul and not a boring person with a standard identity, plus that he can impose this ridiculous nonsense on people who aren't allowed to fight back.

Just engage with him as little as possible?
elferian · 04/04/2022 10:22

@Jessasamantha

I have a colleague like this. Not only are his pronouns in his email signature but in his actual name as it appears in my email inbox eg John Smith He/They. He is a mature adult who is very well respected in his field but I cannot take him seriously after this show of narcissism and cringe whenever I see it, I am absolutely sure I am not the only one who thinks less of him for it.
that is just bullying. if you company encourages pronouns he may have many reasons for using he/they. I don't like companies encouraging it but if they do it is wrong to label people who chose to display pronouns and it gives the GC movement a bad name.