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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

He/They

113 replies

BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 17:32

Bloke at work, complaining that the new pronouns policy on forms etc isn’t inclusive enough (they/them and ‘other’ then write your own included with she/be etc) Because he is ‘non-conforming’ and uses he/they or him/ them and it’s very common in his ‘community’.

So I asked him how that works, as someone who is actually gay ( he’s white, straight, male appearing) I hadn’t come across he/they before. It was a genuine non-goady question.
He said he’s happy with being addressed as either and chooses which he’ll use on the day. And that if on the day he’s being ‘they’ it would be nice if people noticed and used ‘they’.

Is this a thing now? Or is he just saying call me anything but she/her???

OP posts:
Whitefire · 30/03/2022 18:38

Umm, I'm going for him taking the piss out of it all, and as a white, gay man he can get away with it.

Original poster
BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 18:50

He’s not gay. He’s straight.
I don’t know if he thinks this is helping his career - he is a ‘diversity champion’ but while he’s being thanked for his insight and lauded on forums I know many senior people, women, who are finding him problematic and would rather avoid him than figure out what to call him day to day.

OP posts:
Whatsnewpussyhat · 30/03/2022 18:51

He can tell people if he's having a 'he' or 'they' day, they'll just be calling him an attention seeking bellend behind his back anyway.

This has fuck all to do with dysphoria and all about control.

mumwon · 30/03/2022 18:51

"Look mate - I am confused -how about I refer to you by your name? My dear old mum use to say it rude to use pronouns anyway"

turbonerd · 30/03/2022 18:56

No.
He/they can fuck right off with that nonsense.

Policing how people will speak about you and that they just magically must feel what you have decided on that day is … for lack of a better word, insanity.

Hehe, but Nice try that guy!

Manekinek0 · 30/03/2022 18:58

As a pp said it's about control. The use of weird made up pronouns or those used for groups of people isnt going to happen, it doesn't conform to the rules of English we are used to or the words are meaningless.

It isn't worth the debate, these people get some weird kick out of being challenged and supposedly victimised. I would just accept he's a nutjob and avoid conversation.

MiladyBerserko · 30/03/2022 18:58

If ever there was a time for 'that's nice, dear' this is it.

Iamnotamermaid · 30/03/2022 18:58

Of all the things to worry about in the world today this is the big priority? Life is too short for this. I am grateful if someone just gets my name right-and if I can remember their's.

Happy for people to indulge in this if this is what they are into but do not inflict it on me.

HollowTalk · 30/03/2022 18:58

Attention Seeker Extraordinaire.

MiladyBerserko · 30/03/2022 19:02

Or alternatively, acknowledge the bat signal that you should be cautious around 'they'.

I certainly do this to the her/himmers at work.

Mention Mumsnet and observe.

Whitefire · 30/03/2022 19:04

Apologies, I got bits of your OP twisted up in my head. With the further info he does sound like someone who is doing this because he can and he likes having the control over others.

KitchenDancefloor · 30/03/2022 19:14

@MiladyBerserko

If ever there was a time for 'that's nice, dear' this is it.
And I'm using "righty-ho" more and more these days when faced with nonsense compelled speech.
DameHelena · 30/03/2022 19:19

@MiladyBerserko

If ever there was a time for 'that's nice, dear' this is it.
Grin

I might choose to be referred to as ‘he’ on a day when I feel like not getting a debilitating period, or being talked over by a bloke in a meeting. I assume that’s how it works anyway.

MoonOnASpoon · 30/03/2022 19:35

Yes, self-absorbed bollocks and controlling, for a great many of these people. And not surprising is it. We all get told if someone randomly announces they "have" special pronouns we all have to use them – it's catnip for controlling, manipulative people.

I work with a female "he/they" - remotely thank goodness or he/they might notice my eyeballs rolling out of my head - female appearance, female (and very feminine) name, requires he/they pronouns, it's just daft. It's obviously not dysphoria about being female or feminine. And I'm pissed off that I'm meant to find it impressive that he/they wants to identify out of womanhood and push people around into the bargain.

Original poster
BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 19:40

I’m happy to use any pronouns requested, and use them a respectfully as I can remember but this one is tricky.
Still, I generally use their name rather than he/they whatever and the same with anyone with ‘ they’ as a pronoun as I am essentially an editor/copywriter who struggles with any grammar that appears incorrect!

OP posts:
Original poster
BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 19:41

Has anyone else come
Across this he/they thing though? Is he right, is it common???

OP posts:
MoonOnASpoon · 30/03/2022 19:44

Well I know three he/theys, and I wfh and don't move in woke circles. I think it is common at the moment (but I predict will be embarrassing and quickly shaken off by most, when society finally moves on from this mad moment).

napody · 30/03/2022 19:45

@mumwon

"Look mate - I am confused -how about I refer to you by your name? My dear old mum use to say it rude to use pronouns anyway"
Haha so true! Like my grandma used to say “Who’s they, the cat’s birthing person?”
Original poster
BloodyloveGeorge · 30/03/2022 20:14

@MoonOnASpoon
And how does that work? Do they switch between or tell people about their pronouns? Or ask for pronouns to be used?
Or is it just in their email signature and everyone call them ‘he’ as default?

OP posts:
MoonOnASpoon · 30/03/2022 20:27

I was introduced to the person in a CC'd email in which the person introducing us used "they". I checked on Twitter and the person included they/them in profile but then made a change and announced he/they instead (without changing name or appearance). I only use they, never he but of course it's unlikely they'd ever know as it's in perfunctory emails to other people about who's sending what when and so on. But in my industry I have to tread carefully.

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 30/03/2022 20:30

They can all fuck off now. I’ve had enough

BalladOfBarryAndFreda · 30/03/2022 20:35

And does it actually work as an either/or scenario?

He/him
She/her
They/them

Admittedly I’m not a linguist, but aren’t all of the above list to do with the tense and circumstance in which you are using the pronoun? Rather than being a choice between two different ‘identities’.

RobotValkyrie · 30/03/2022 20:54

I've seen he/they before. It reminds me a bit if the Kinsey Scale, but for gender instead of sexual orientation.

I don't really believe in gender (my personality just doesn't fit into narrow pink/blue boxes, and I don't look at other people through gender lenses), but I guess if someone does believe in that stuff, adding more nuances to it is a form of progress (I guess he/they is a slightly more androgynous persona compared to a manly man, but still somewhat more masculine than feminine. Whatever that means)

Nothing wrong in term of "understanding better your own internal sense of self". But expecting other people to perform some sort of social dance around it is ridiculous. No one fucking cares how fucking pink or blue your gender aura is today, mate!

MoonOnASpoon · 30/03/2022 20:54

Yes, there is a discontinuity with this. He/him and she/her are unnecessary, they're just two different parts of speech, it's just for emphasis I think, and because just putting "he" wouldn't be as noticeable.

Whereas if you say "He/they" IME that generally means they are OK with either he/him or they/them, though in some cases it might mean they want you to use both as a PP described.

A different he/they I know spells out that either he or they is acceptable.

waterlego · 30/03/2022 21:14

My older teen DC has a friend at school who is female but has given themselves a male name and likes he/they pronouns, depending on how they identify on a particular day. I asked DC how one was supposed to know which ones to use, and apparently the child wears a bracelet of a particular colour to signify the pronoun du jour. They all seem more or less willing to go along with it but I see it as more than a little self-obsessed.