Wes Streeting!

[tabbycatstripy]

To JHB: “Men have penises. Women have vaginas. Here ends the biology lesson. Some people have gender dysphoria and transition to another gender, and we should respect that.”

Roughly what he said.

JHB stunned.

The awful truth of the matter is that, thanks to the loony and totally reprehensible legal lie that is the GRA, "women" CAN have a penis. Labour MPs know this and this is why they cannot answer the question. To answer honestly would inform the general public just that little bit too much because reasonable people would then want that law repealed and that is the opposite of what Labour plans to do with self ID. Don't trust them. They don't care about women. They are no doubt spending hours behind closed doors thinking up cleverer and cleverer ways of answering the penis question without mentioning the GRA.

Some people transition to another gender, and we should respect that.

What does he mean by "we should respect that"? What does 'respecting that' involve?

Crumbs, tainted crumbs.

@DogsDinner

But how do we respect men who are transitioning? By letting them use women’s spaces? Unless he makes it clear that women’s rights remain for females with biological vaginas, then we’re no further on.

I suppose it does at least suggest that there’s a dim realisation that this is a big issue for women.

I agree it’s the woolly statements like this one that need clear simple definitions. Otherwise it’s just more bumpf.

I bet he is still in favour of self-id. It is after all a Labour policy.

I’m not voting for them. He’s sane and he’s telling the truth (I think), and that’s a start. But there is a marathon on for Labour and they all need to realise they’re running in the wrong direction.

Wes Streeting knows that the reason Labour politicians are being asked this question over and over is because it makes them look like complete idiots, and the media love it when politicians look like total fools. He knows no one is buying the word salady answers. Ultimately he, and probably loads of others in the top of the party, knows that this issue is not a vote winner and things are going to need to change.

I really, really feel like the tide is starting to properly turn. Owen Jones knows it to, going by his little piss taking tantrum on Twitter today.

@jkrfan

I bet he is still in favour of self-id. It is after all a Labour policy.

Yeah, I'm sure he said something on Twitter a while ago about taking a different route to the same destination.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Wes Streeting knows that the reason Labour politicians are being asked this question over and over is because it makes them look like complete idiots, and the media love it when politicians look like total fools. He knows no one is buying the word salady answers. Ultimately he, and probably loads of others in the top of the party, knows that this issue is not a vote winner and things are going to need to change.

I really, really feel like the tide is starting to properly turn. Owen Jones knows it to, going by his little piss taking tantrum on Twitter today.

I think you're right and I see no problem with an MP changing his mind: as the Conservatives did a few years ago.

Isn't that what people want? A change of mind in those with the authority to do something about it?

Now that Wes Streeting has come up with a decent answer, we'll see more doing the same. A pity Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak etc. couldn't be better prepared for the question, of course, but it's a start.

Wes has been speaking sense on this for a while, and he's able to make it make sense in a range of settings, which makes me think he genuinely gets it. I thought he was very good on BBC QT a couple of weeks ago as well.

He made Angela Rayner look a right one, as well. Bonus.

Streeting is a master political opportunist with a nose for which way the wind is blowing. The positive take away from this is he senses women are winning.

I still don't trust him an inch.

@nevercis

Streeting is a master political opportunist with a nose for which way the wind is blowing. The positive take away from this is he senses women are winning.

I still don't trust him an inch.

Yes, all of this. Glad to see that anti-women is looking like a vote-loser and the rats are edging towards the gang plank.

Still going to need to see a LOT more before I vote for the bastards again, mind you.

I don’t for one second believe Wes Streeting has changed his mind on this issue, and if he has, he should come right out and say so.

Women have vaginas, but do they also have penises? That is the question.

To borrow from a previous poster, I suspect Wes is indeed intending to get to the same destination by a different route. AKA tell women what they want to hear, but don’t let them read the small print. Labour has form for this.

And what is this debate we’re supposed to be having? Is it a debate about how we can provide additional spaces for trans people so they can be catered for in all areas, leaving women’s things for women?

I rather suspect that’s not the debate he wants to have though.

‘Women have vaginas, but do they also have penises? That is the question.’

And the answer is different depending on whether you view the question through a legal or a literal lens, and different again if you see it through a ‘gender identity’ lens. I agree with you that Streeting seems to believe ‘TWAW’. He also recognises the legitimacy of the perspectives of people who disagree with him. That is a beginning.

Well you may be right tabbycat, even if he is acting in bad faith, I suppose it is a step up for him to acknowledge that there is a clash of rights.

He lost his shit over the rainbow dildo butt-monkey in the library IIRC - maybe that started to open his eyes to the dark side of alphabet soup.

The rainbow-dildo-butt-monkey letter was good (he had cancer at the time). You can support people’s (reasonable) civil rights without thinking it’s okay to parade weird, red-balled penis monkeys in kids’ libraries.

Predictably, Wes is being called a "right wing bigot" on the birdy hell site. People really need to start telling these overgrown toddlers to just piss off and come back when they are mature enough to have a proper conversation. Can't believe these idiots have been handed the reins when they should probably still be wearing them.

You can support people’s (reasonable) civil rights without thinking it’s okay to parade weird, red-balled penis monkeys in kids’ libraries.

This is probably one of the best lines I've ever read on MN.

Anyone listening to Rachel Reeves on Today? Does seem a shift is happening 'biology does matter' and lots of usage of 'women'

And Mishal Husain has rather surprisingly to me just asked Rachel Reeves why Labour find it so hard to define a woman at the end of an interview on the Today programme just before 8am.

Rachel was a bit flustered but she did manage to say that biology determined most people's gender but that there were people who identified as a different gender to the sex they were born in. She did get there eventually.

I thought I heard her say that there should be same sex spaces which would be quite a change

I was only half listening but the statement about biology made me stop in my tracks! Will listen back.

Yes we need a clear statement on this particularly regarding women's spaces .

Have done a very quick transcript:

"The vast majority of women share physical attributes "

"Biology does matter it is the main determinant of your gender"

"A woman has certain biological characteristics, but there are also people born in a different sex that identify as a woman and I wouldn't want to exclude them"

"Also important that same sex spaces are available in sport refuges and prisons"