Wes Streeting!

[tabbycatstripy]

To JHB: “Men have penises. Women have vaginas. Here ends the biology lesson. Some people have gender dysphoria and transition to another gender, and we should respect that.”

Roughly what he said.

JHB stunned.

Actually I think it was Nick Robinson’s podcast

How the worm turns

No, definitely TalkRadio (perhaps as well). He was on Sky talking about men being asked about pregnancy too. He said he wasn’t asked about pregnancy when he went into hospital because “evidently” he can’t be pregnant. But hospitals should use common sense and when they see a patient who might be transitioning or might have transitioned, who is female, obviously they should ask.

Which all sounds sensible, but it does mean hospitals have to either record natal sex (good idea) or we have to change the narrative to make it (as it should be) perfectly acceptable for medical practitioners to ask about natal sex when they think it’s sensible to do so.

@Abhannmor

He could make himself useful and stand up for Rosie Duffield and others.

He won't, though.

I'm convinced that Streeting's unequivocal statement about men having penises, women having vaginas is entirely based on pragmatism. He doesn't care about women and was previously part of the Terfs out faction.

He has realised, however, that a) every other politician to answer JHB's question has looked immensely foolish and b) the general public is not quite as on board with the loony wing of the trans agenda as he might have hoped.

And that's a good thing. I doubt he's sincere, but he has seen which way the wind is blowing.

‘I'm convinced that Streeting's unequivocal statement about men having penises, women having vaginas is entirely based on pragmatism. He doesn't care about women and was previously part of the Terfs out faction.

He has realised, however, that a) every other politician to answer JHB's question has looked immensely foolish and b) the general public is not quite as on board with the loony wing of the trans agenda as he might have hoped.’

At least he can see it, though. I don’t mind that he thinks TWAW. He’s a Christian as well. These are his beliefs and he has a right to them. I just need him (and other politicians) to respect my beliefs.

He might only be saying what he thinks voters want to hear, but a bit later he says

'We realize there are tensions on the gender identity debate and the sex based rights debate and we've just got to acknowledge that and find a way through that maybe not everyone loves, but that everyone can live with, and that's what we are trying to do'

Interesting to hear 'sex based rights' rather than 'gender critical' and I might start to use that myself to clear up the confusion that seems to be around what gender critical actually means.

I'm convinced that Streeting's unequivocal statement about men having penises, women having vaginas is entirely based on pragmatism. He doesn't care about women and was previously part of the Terfs out faction.

He has realised, however, that a) every other politician to answer JHB's question has looked immensely foolish and b) the general public is not quite as on board with the loony wing of the trans agenda as he might have hoped.

And that's a good thing. I doubt he's sincere, but he has seen which way the wind is blowing.

All this. Think of him as a weathercock. Pun intended.

@WinterTrees

He dipped a toe in the shark-infested waters a couple of months ago.

He's not stupid, that's for sure, and he's obviously way ahead of his comrades in identifying that they have to get the angry ladies back onside if they're going to have a hope in hell of not shaming themselves at the next election. (I'm not sure he's any friend to women, but that's the tragedy about this shitshow - supporting women in 2022 just means being ok with saying what one is.)

This, right? For years politicians and journalists have been listening, and giving in, to top volume lobbying from trans activists who represent a teeny tiny percentage of the country’s voters.

Meanwhile people who believe that biology exists, and that it matters, which is more like 99% of the electorate, have no one to vote for.

Smart politicians are beginning to wake up to this.

Hello, politicians 👋 In the past I’ve voted Labour, Conservative, Lib dem and Green, I currently dislike the leaders of all those parties, but I will happily vote for you if you protect female-only safe spaces for women, stop children being brainwashed at school into believing they can really become the opposite sex, record male crimes as make crimes, and acknowledge women’s right to express gender critical beliefs without being fired / sent death threats.

Transwomen do not rule this country and they should not be allowed to bully its politicians and press as if they do.

Agree, Corgi. I'm afraid this is not substantively different than Starmer's statement (a woman is an AHF and TWAW) - it's just phrased in a different way. I don't trust Streeting an inch.

‘ We realize there are tensions on the gender identity debate and the sex based rights debate and we've just got to acknowledge that and find a way through that maybe not everyone loves, but that everyone can live with, and that's what we are trying to do'

Poor Wes is out there on his own there. The rest of them are trying to make the Labour Party look as unelectable as possible.

Eresh, a weathercock is precisely the right term.

‘I'm afraid this is not substantively different than Starmer's statement (a woman is an AHF and TWAW)’

It seems different to me. He acknowledges that transwomen and biologically female people are two different groups. Starmer never does.

I wonder if we're going to see a more 'divide and conquer' approach? A few key players like Streeting talking about biology, qualifying it with support for transpeople, Rosie Duffield potentially being brought cautiously back in to the very edge of the labour fold, while the rest of the party (Rayner, Nandy and co) hold the TWAW hardline. The aim being to offer enough crumbs for left wing women who despise the tories to feel able to vote Labour again?

OJ says discussions about human biology are “tawdry”. He says sex jokes, on the other hand, are fine. The more the better.

So now the basic content of every sex education class in the country (male bodies look like this, female bodies look like this) is morally impure, but when it comes to talking about sex acts, the whole world of crude humour just opens right up. After all, we wouldn’t want to be accused of prudishness.

Winter:

Possibly. I’ll never vote for them again anyway. (Send in the clowns. Where are the clowns...?)

The aim being to offer enough crumbs for left wing women who despise the tories to feel able to vote Labour again?

They are some very soggy, trampled on crumbs.

Please let this be the turning point with labour so I can vote for them again! It def seems there’s been a shift in the Labour Party over the past couple of weeks.

Wes the Weathercock. Lovin' it.

@tabbycatstripy

OJ says discussions about human biology are “tawdry”. He says sex jokes, on the other hand, are fine. The more the better.

So now the basic content of every sex education class in the country (male bodies look like this, female bodies look like this) is morally impure, but when it comes to talking about sex acts, the whole world of crude humour just opens right up. After all, we wouldn’t want to be accused of prudishness.

Owen Jones who promoted a "Will suck dick for socialism" t-shirt, and defends men wanking at work.

He's got some weird moral values, that lad.

Yes, that OJ. We can’t talk about strangers’ genitals (even when we’re not, we’re talking about the human body) but we can talk about sex acts ‘cos it’s funny when he does it.

Or something.

OJ is like a teenager. Fun sex for beautiful young people ('sucks cock for socialism!' emblazoned across a pair of pert breasts) is cool and great. Middle-aged women talking about safeguarding and sexual boundaries is eeeeeeuuuwww grosssss shutup mum.

I see it as a slight glimmer of distant hope.... Thanks a bit Wes.

Meanwhile, back in the real world we're having to deal with people with penises in women's prison, in women's swimming, in women's cycling, in our rape crisis centres, homeless shelters, in our toilets and winning business awards meant for women.

People like Wes Streeting who gleefully allowed all this to happen can fuck off until they "repent motherfucker". I mean, completely and unequivocally apologize and correct the indefensible until they get my vote.

I remembered that we'd talked about hid various statements on this before so had a look.

He obviously has a clear view of how this discussion is looking from the outside and he is a very good communicator himself.

Somewhat shifting sands on this issue but there's something to work with there if he does engage in it properly.

This February - Rosie diffield's posts indefensible
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4470824-Wes-Streeting-on-Rosie-Duffield

Back in January slightly more sensible?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4467462-Wes-streeting-interview

Also January- a bit mixed but some sensible points
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4447315-Wes-Streeting-on-trans-rights

But hrs changed his tune alot.

Back in 2018 he was involved k talking about reviewing thd ea. Interesting thread, though he didn't go I the end to the meeting.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3278207-Campaign-Launch-Why-its-time-to-review-the-Equality-Act-60-tickets-left?msgid=78661341#78661341
"Wes Streeting is a member of the notorious "Labour Against Transphobia" group, which was that group you will all remember who in January created and published a "hit-list" of GC women to be harassed out of the Labour Party, and which successfully got several women suspended for saying "women don't have XXXXX"."

From a thread back I 2017
"Caroline Lucas was one of the MPs who signed the early day motion demanding all of the Maria Miller trans report's recommendations were implemented.

That would have included the removal of sex exemptions in the EA.

Fellow MPs who signed it include Stephen Doughty and Wes Streeting

www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/355"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3351153-Caroline-Lucas-on-Aimee-Challoner-in-the-Guardian?msgid=80634065#80634065

Anyway that'll have tk do for digging through advanced search!

@Abhannmor

He could make himself useful and stand up for Rosie Duffield and others.

Doubt it, he’s still a misogynist, but he’s a misogynist that can see the tide might be turning and he’d better get ahead of it.