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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced

129 replies

girasol · 30/03/2022 07:30

And so it continues….
Fears for future of female sport as transgender cyclist rides in

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11533398-af91-11ec-8b8c-0207c0fd6104?shareToken=2a3f87a55e25652043a6b9deb1a6eb89

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Thread gallery
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girasol · 30/03/2022 07:33

Am never quite sure if the share link will work so here’s some screenshots (I hope! They don’t always work either).

Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
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girasol · 30/03/2022 07:33

And the rest

Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
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Syeknom · 30/03/2022 07:35

Total disgrace.

tabbycatstripy · 30/03/2022 07:37

Absolutely no interest in watching Bridges coast to a few second or third-places finishes so Bridges can say, ‘Look - testosterone suppression!’ then ‘happen upon’ a record-breaking ride in a particular race.

None. I won’t be watching any sports until this gets sorted out FAIRLY.

girasol · 30/03/2022 07:39

Perhaps the likes of Keir Starmer should take a look at the poll when deciding what will win or lose him votes Hmm

Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
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lightand · 30/03/2022 07:39

The NHS workers defeated the covid mandate, by there being too many of them to be sacked.

Female sportswomen need to do the same thing.

Rightsraptor · 30/03/2022 07:42

Can I just point out that decimated actually means reduced by one tenth and not almost wiped out, as most people seem to think now?

We'd be lucky if it was only decimated.

tabbycatstripy · 30/03/2022 07:44

I know there are more important issues than sports. Women and girls in shelters, prisons, hospitals, schools are more vulnerable than sportswomen.

But there’s something about the forced expectation that elite sportswomen will smile through being publicly cheated out of their achievements, and will tolerate people telling them their collective achievements are less important than a few male people’s feelings, that makes me see red. I’d rather never watch another sporting event than see women be treated this way and told to like it.

overnightangel · 30/03/2022 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

CocktailNapkin · 30/03/2022 07:47

Cycling is another sport (like swimming) where physiology and kinetics play a big part. Its not just greater lung capacity and stronger muscles with more fast/slow twitch fibers, its longer limbs that have an impact on the crank being pushed and the length of a swimming stroke, not to mention women have to carry a higher body fat percentage.

Emily is worried about their career huh? Ain't gonna HAVE a career if the field is decimated by ongoing allowance of MTF competitors by governing bodies in certain sports without much greater scientific backup and rules. Unless this person is more concerned about media coverage of their fight for acceptance and "that" career specifically rather than cycling?

BenCooperisaGod · 30/03/2022 08:00

Cycling, like rowing, is as much as mechanics as it is about talent. The narrow male pelvis has a much more efficient configuration to generate power through the legs than the female pelvis. Add in longer limbs and the bigger lung capacity, then cycling is one of those events where mediocre men will always wipe the floor with top tier women.

The women need to speak up. It is a risk, but if they don't they will spend their lives being beaten unfairly by men. The public are with them and some of them women have high enough profiles they could weather the storm. It is really hard to mount an effective defence against this if the competitors stay silence. Silence can be taken as consent.

Speak up ladies, we will back you, we will raise the needed funds for legal challenges, we will amplify your message. You need to find your voice.

ResisterRex · 30/03/2022 08:02

@tabbycatstripy

Absolutely no interest in watching Bridges coast to a few second or third-places finishes so Bridges can say, ‘Look - testosterone suppression!’ then ‘happen upon’ a record-breaking ride in a particular race.

None. I won’t be watching any sports until this gets sorted out FAIRLY.

Exactly. Like access to women's wards, it's clear these moves are part of a much, much longer-term strategy.
SpinningTheSeedsOfLove · 30/03/2022 08:07

@Rightsraptor

Can I just point out that decimated actually means reduced by one tenth and not almost wiped out, as most people seem to think now?

We'd be lucky if it was only decimated.

Aye, the word is 'devastated'. Or 'destroyed'.
girasol · 30/03/2022 08:11

It’s beyond depressing but I completely understand why the women cyclists daren’t speak notwithstanding the risks make bodied athletes pose to their sporting careers. How many of us could say in all honesty that we would be prepared to endure the death threats/abuse/harassment of the likes that JKR and Kathleen Stock have had to face? And no doubt pressure on any sponsors to cut their sponsorship.

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Alcoh · 30/03/2022 08:11

The really really sad thing is that this is going to backlash against the whole trans community including those not interested in taking women’s prizes. How on earth can Lia and Emily not understand that? The utter narcissism this shows. It’s all about Lia and Emily and them needing this to affirm themselves. It’s sickening. Hopefully people are peaking at record rates especially if this male body starts beating our national treasures such as Laura Kenny. But it will be stealthy. The women need to refuse to race and leave Emily to race alone.

Onthetoadagain · 30/03/2022 08:19

EB began hormone therapy just last year after a record setting career as a male cyclist. The cynicism, entitlement, and lack of sports(person)ship of switching to female competition utterly galls me, leaving me fearful for women's safety and opportunities in every area, not just sport. I have zero interest in sport. Does Emily Bridges really, truly, think this is fair or is it just opportunism/ selfishness?

The maddening thing is that in no sports I can think of, there is any equivalence for trans men having anything like the same opportunities to either infiltrate at an artificially high level, put men at risk, or sweep the board because of physiological advantages. Not in any sport that I am aware of. Same goes in prisons. Same in refuges. Same in clinical settings.

tabbycatstripy · 30/03/2022 08:25

Transmen are no risk at all to male sports, whether they take hormones or not. And the fact that many males know this allows them to say, ‘Look how inclusive we are!’ and lose nothing.

Helleofabore · 30/03/2022 08:25

Does Emily Bridges really, truly, think this is fair or is it just opportunism/ selfishness?

Bridges mother is very heavily invested in smoothing the way for her child. I believe she has buzzed us once or twice on threads to give us her view and post rubbish evidence.

OnlyTheTitosaurusOfTheIceberg · 30/03/2022 08:26

Ugh, the male entitlement and narcissism.

I’m glad the sports I most enjoy watching are equestrian events where there is no sex segregation and men and women already compete together on a level playing field, so there is no particular competitive incentive for a male rider to transition.

FemaleAndLearning · 30/03/2022 08:38

The women cyclists have been silenced. We can speak up for them though. Saturday in Derby will be interesting. See this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4511906-Trans-cyclist-will-be-allowed-in-Commonwealth-Games?pg=1

Clymene · 30/03/2022 09:04

Last month Bridges was in their men's university team. How handy to be able to pick and choose!

Women’s cycling now to be decimated/ women silenced
GonadTheGaul · 30/03/2022 09:05

@tabbycatstripy

Absolutely no interest in watching Bridges coast to a few second or third-places finishes so Bridges can say, ‘Look - testosterone suppression!’ then ‘happen upon’ a record-breaking ride in a particular race.

None. I won’t be watching any sports until this gets sorted out FAIRLY.

Simply not winning every race seems to be taken as proof that males can compete fairly in female sport, even though we know cyclists who were doping didn't win every race and we still rightly regard them as cheats. As if that wasn't bad enough, Bridges has declared an intention to prove the testosterone suppression rules are fair, right back in 2020, in this article:

www.skysports.com/more-sports/cycling/news/15264/12101251/emily-bridges-coming-out-as-trans-in-cycling-is-a-crucial-step-on-my-journey with this quote

"To help achieve this, I'm going to be part of research into the effect that a medical transition has on athletic performance. This will, as far as I'm aware, be the first time that an elite-level international athlete has done this. I understand this will be extremely useful research. I really want to demonstrate what effect hormone replacement therapy has on the body, and how it massively changes athletic performance in multiple ways.I know that people will have questions about fairness. I feel I have an opportunity to show that the existing eligibility rules for trans athletes in competition are appropriate."

So Bridges, along with study leader Joanna Harper, know the result they want to achieve. Harper says in several interviews that transwomen should be included female sports categories using vague terms like "meaningful competition", despite having had to concede that the testosterone rules do not reduce male advantage(because that's what the data shows) in this review:

How does hormone transition in transgender women change body composition, muscle strength and haemoglobin? Systematic review with a focus on the implications for sport participation
Joanna Harper, Emma O’Donnell, Behzad Sorouri Khorashad, Hilary McDermott, Gemma L Witcomb
Br J Sports Med 2021;0:1–9. doi:10.1136/bjsports-2020-103106

Despite the early data, Harper's research looking at transgender athlete performance is not using any method to make sure athletes are not deliberately or unconsciously underperforming when they collect data for the study (Ross Tucker says so in the podcast here www.womensrights.network/wrn-podcast ).

So now we have at least one athlete and a researcher who want to prove testosterone suppression rules are fair, despite mounting evidence to the contrary, who have a study that cannot show that because it doesn't include a way to ensure underperformance isn't happening. They don't even have to be underperforming deliberately, anyone who works in medical research knows that double-blind trials (where both heathcare staff and patients don't know which treatment a patient is getting) are necessary due to completely unconscious bias that people cannot control, no matter how honest they are, that can lead to measurements being recorded a bit low or high, according to whatever the bias is.

This is what makes me doubly angry, it's not just the attack on women's sports, it's the poor science which will no doubt get cited everywhere as "proof" that males should be in female sport if they want to be.

GonadTheGaul · 30/03/2022 09:10

@Clymene

Last month Bridges was in their men's university team. How handy to be able to pick and choose!
Bridges won the men's Points Race at that event, www.nottingham.ac.uk/sport/news-and-events/news/news/successful-return-to-the-bucs-track-cycling-championships-for-university-of-nottingham-students.aspx which is pretty good going for somebody who has lost 13-16% of their power and regularly gets lapped or finishes nearly last www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/i-just-want-to-be-competitive-again-trans-cyclist-emily-bridges-on-preparing-to-race-in-the-female-category
hazelnutlatte · 30/03/2022 09:21

Emily Bridges is due to compete against Laura Kenny soon. I really wish that Laura would speak out about this, she must know that this is unfair and that women are going to be denied the opportunities that she has had if this is allowed to continue.
However if she does speak out she will receive a ton of abuse and death threats so I expect she won't (and I don't blame her)
All of this talk about inclusion for transwomen in elite sport just doesn't make sense - Emily Bridges can still compete in the male category. She won't set any world records or win the tour de france, but there is still a place for her to be competitive and continue in the sport.
Transmen have to accept that transitioning means they lose any chance of winning at the highest level - they can't compete in the female category due to high testosterone levels, and they no hope of being competitive in the male category due to their female bodies - and no one is screaming and demanding that we create new rules so that they can win.

DomesticatedZombie · 30/03/2022 09:22

@Rightsraptor

Can I just point out that decimated actually means reduced by one tenth and not almost wiped out, as most people seem to think now?

We'd be lucky if it was only decimated.

Shock

Oh my word, I had no idea. What an awful fucking thing!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimation_(punishment)