Men asked if pregnant before x-rays

[ResisterRex]

In the Telegraph today:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/28/nhs-trusts-ask-men-pregnant-government-removes-word-female-guidelines/

Male cancer patients and those having X-Rays and MRI scans are being asked if they could be expecting after the Government removed the word “female” from the law governing the medical procedures and replaced it with “individuals”.
The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust, in Liverpool, now asks “ALL patients under the age of 60, regardless of how you may identify your gender”.

Identifying your own "gender" won't mean you're male or female. And replacing medically accurate language in this case, has the effect of erasing women. One man was reportedly upset:

"One woman whose husband has cancer says that the question before a scan had caused “unnecessary confusion and agitation” and was “unfair” as a combination of steroids and brain surgery had made him emotional.
She added: “This was very confusing for him in his post-surgical daze, his vulnerability and needs completely ignored.”"

It is not all trusts but this one doubled down:

"“We believe asking all people who are having their abdomen imaged/scanned in this way, regardless of gender, is the least intrusive way of ensuring it is safe to proceed.”"

Dept of Health not impressed, it seems!

"When asked about the change in language, a Department of Health and Social Care spokesman said: “Patient safety is paramount, especially when there is a risk that foetuses may be exposed to damaging radiation. Therefore, it’s important that all biological females of child-bearing age are screened for potential pregnancy to avoid this risk.”"

What happens when they ask a man who says yes, maybe I could be? I bet lots of men do say that just to be funny, never mind the men who would say it for other reasons.

Hmm I think the NHS is very into tick boxing these days.

I went for my 1st mammogram last week, and she asked if I was breastfeeding. I must have looked dumbfounded and said to her "Um I'm 51". She rolled her eyes and said that they have to ask all women up to the age of 55.............

@Absurdle

What happens when they ask a man who says yes, maybe I could be? I bet lots of men do say that just to be funny, never mind the men who would say it for other reasons.

It's like the men who hilariously and with complete originality, every time they're visiting someone in a maternity ward, say, "Not this time, or I don't think so" in response to, "Are you the father?"

I have a lot of issues with the incorrect recording of sex but I'm not sure I can get too het up over men being asked this question. As someone upthread mentioned HCPs generally use the same form for men and women so the question is on there anyway. Is it that confusing or offensive to men to be asked one question that is not relevant to them and that can presumably be answered Yes/No/N/A?

To me it actually feels like a move away from the idea of the male body as default and Women's things needing to be kept secret or separate.

As someone upthread mentioned HCPs generally use the same form for men and women so the question is on there anyway.

No, this is a new initiative designed to be "inclusive".

It's like the men who hilariously and with complete originality, every time they're visiting someone in a maternity ward, say, "Not this time, or I don't think so" in response to, "Are you the father?

🤦‍♀️ I wonder if the Dad Joke Reflex might cause NHS staff enough annoyance to get this brilliant inclusive initiative shelved.

What are the snowflakes going to do next?? Complain when they're asked to roll their sleeve up for a blood test? Men can get a grip and answer a simple question, just as infertile women do

@Lacedwithgrace

What are the snowflakes going to do next?? Complain when they're asked to roll their sleeve up for a blood test? Men can get a grip and answer a simple question, just as infertile women do

Who are the snowflakes in your opinion? The men who are being asked if they are pregnant or the medical professionals who are supposed to ask men if they are pregnant with a straight face? Or the people who would be offended if they weren't asked if they were pregnant, male or female?

Ok

So how do we put a STOP to this runaway train??

I'm totally confused about who this question is supposed to validate to be honest.

Whilst we're on the subject of Liverpool hospitals, can we just once again remind ourselves that the Liverpool Women's Hospital have made the women's toilets "open for everyone" and left the men's toilets just for men.

Our patient electronic record system used to have a field that was patient sex. 2 yrs ago it changed to 'gender', no Trust wide announcement to update users, it just appeared one day. Now sex is a private matter for the patient to divulge when they want to, and for the rest of us to walk the tightrope of not knowing all the necessary info for procedures, alongside the risk of censure if we dare ask or make reference to sex in a way that someone deems offensive. Don't think all staff want to participate in denying material reality as it's due the heavy-handed censure from management who create these policies. If unions are also in thrall to this neo-religion then you have nobody official on your side. We probably need crowdfunded legal cases of NHS staff taking employers to task for expecting staff to violate basic principles of truth, safeguarding, Nolan etc.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

I'm totally confused about who this question is supposed to validate to be honest.

It's difficult to see how being asked this question isn't going to increase the dysphoria of a substantial number of people under the general trans umbrella (as presented by SW: non-binary people with whatever presentation or transmen) and validate a relatively small number of those under that umbrella.

The one benefit I see in this for political purposes is that now men are experiencing some of that erasure we have been complaining about for years. Maybe they will become more supportive of the issues?

@Absurdle

It's like the men who hilariously and with complete originality, every time they're visiting someone in a maternity ward, say, "Not this time, or I don't think so" in response to, "Are you the father?

🤦‍♀️ I wonder if the Dad Joke Reflex might cause NHS staff enough annoyance to get this brilliant inclusive initiative shelved.

See, this is the thing, what was originally a joke for everyone is now being treated seriously by the NHS.

What was once so obviously a joke, we're now in a "couldn't make it up" position.

It's like if you make up a sexual orientation, you can be sure that it returns a result on the internet, or that you'd at least be believed.

@Hasselhoffsheadband

I'm totally confused about who this question is supposed to validate to be honest.

Trans men, I have been told, because they are the group which might look male but might also be pregnant.

It IS interesting to see which groups in the society matter and which do not. Whose identities are validated and whose identities are erased in that process (as in those of all people who place them on their sex). How very tiny groups matter much, much more than bog-standard women. How it is now fashionable to redefine those bog standard women as the true oppressors. How clarity in health information is deemed less important than the identities of a small group. And how stating any of this is stamped as bigotry.

It will surely be very triggering for a trans man to be asked if they could be pregnant though? So, one would think, if this were really about inclusivity and making people comfortable, a different approach would be used?

On the other hand, I can imagine that some transwomen would be thrilled to be asked this question.....

@nepeta

The one benefit I see in this for political purposes is that now men are experiencing some of that erasure we have been complaining about for years. Maybe they will become more supportive of the issues?

It depends on whether they perceive this as erasure or a pretext for a Dad Joke or absorb it as part of something that is allowed to pollute the public understanding and shared agreements on some matters such as who bears children.

Aside from the men who think they're being mocked or asked culturally inappropriate questions, this is going to have no impact on men as a sex class. However, I'm open to suggestions for the latter as I'm so tired at the moment that they may be something unbelievably obvious that I'm overlooking.

Hahahahaha! We've reached peak lunacy!

Excellent Vulvamort threads relevant to the NHS and their problem with sex:

1. The 'single sex' hospital ward lie

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1177699441425473541

1. What's on your medical record: sex or gender?

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1177699491660664834

I am not anti trans nor a TERF but fuck me this is madness! As an ex NHS employee I would not have felt comfortable asking a man if he was pregnant - they would seriously doubt my sanity.

James Dreyfuss says he was asked if he was pregnant (words I never thought I'd type):

mobile.twitter.com/DreyfusJames/status/1508824951629008896?cxt=HHwWgMC-4ZSTtvApAAAA

A number of replies underneath say they or their sons have been asked the same.

Is this true? twitter.com/benjamincohen/status/1508732229626875906?s=21&t=UhiovhTQacVPr1a0CUBhow

[quote JessHopeThinks]Is this true? twitter.com/benjamincohen/status/1508732229626875906?s=21&t=UhiovhTQacVPr1a0CUBhow[/quote]
1 I'd like to see the form.

2 If the forms in some trusts are generic, why are they squandering the scarce resource of staff time by making staff talk someone through the form rather than allowing people to complete the form themselves?

@Hasselhoffsheadband

It will surely be very triggering for a trans man to be asked if they could be pregnant though? So, one would think, if this were really about inclusivity and making people comfortable, a different approach would be used?

On the other hand, I can imagine that some transwomen would be thrilled to be asked this question.....

I have read that the NHS doesn't want to ask just trans men (among men) if they are pregnant, because that would give them gender dysphoria. The new rules were based on the fact that they had to ask all biologically female people in possibly fertile age categories the question about pregnancy, and trans men are biologically female.

But this, then, means that the possible gender dysphoria trans men would experience if only they, among men, were asked, is seen as more important to avoid than causing possible gender dysphoria or discomfort to enormous numbers of male people.

It is useful to see that spelled out, because it means valuing one type of people lots more than other types of people, and it also means that trans men don't have to accept the reality of their sex in any contexts, even the medical one, but other people must accept that they have to play along with the trans men's rules.