Men asked if pregnant before x-rays

[ResisterRex]

In the Telegraph today:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/28/nhs-trusts-ask-men-pregnant-government-removes-word-female-guidelines/

Male cancer patients and those having X-Rays and MRI scans are being asked if they could be expecting after the Government removed the word “female” from the law governing the medical procedures and replaced it with “individuals”.
The Walton Centre NHS Foundation Trust, in Liverpool, now asks “ALL patients under the age of 60, regardless of how you may identify your gender”.

Identifying your own "gender" won't mean you're male or female. And replacing medically accurate language in this case, has the effect of erasing women. One man was reportedly upset:

"One woman whose husband has cancer says that the question before a scan had caused “unnecessary confusion and agitation” and was “unfair” as a combination of steroids and brain surgery had made him emotional.
She added: “This was very confusing for him in his post-surgical daze, his vulnerability and needs completely ignored.”"

It is not all trusts but this one doubled down:

"“We believe asking all people who are having their abdomen imaged/scanned in this way, regardless of gender, is the least intrusive way of ensuring it is safe to proceed.”"

Dept of Health not impressed, it seems!

"When asked about the change in language, a Department of Health and Social Care spokesman said: “Patient safety is paramount, especially when there is a risk that foetuses may be exposed to damaging radiation. Therefore, it’s important that all biological females of child-bearing age are screened for potential pregnancy to avoid this risk.”"

If someone lies about their biological sex to a HCP, I'm inclined to let them take the consequences of that and absolve the health services of any responsibility.

@FannyCann

"The Department of Health updated the regulations regarding the procedures in 2017 and changed the wording surrounding those who should be questioned from “females of childbearing age” to “individuals of childbearing potential”

Individuals of childbearing potential remain female! Still doesn't justify asking all men.

Individuals of childbearing potential could be interpreted as men. I know strictly speaking only women are 'childbearing' but it could be confused as 'potential parent'.

What a load of crap.

Individuals of childbearing potential
Unless I knew otherwise I'd assume this included female children too - depends what conditions the 'potential' requires.

Yes the NHS is well an truly captured.
My Mum had a stroke 2 weeks ago. She is in her 70s. The first question they asked her when the consultant came to see her in A&E was, wait for it.................."How do you identify".

To an OBVIOUS woman in her 70s.
Who'd just had a stroke.
Who doesn't know or give a crap about gender ideology.
Who was confused enough after just having A STROKE.

I felt like punching the doctor.
I did however, laugh in their faces.

They had the decency to look a little embarrassed.

The NHS is fucked.

Yes, my family member who is a doc has to ask this of males despite knowing full well how ridiculous it is, and makes him look. He is raging, but can do nothing. All that education, years of experience, he thinks it makes him look like an idiot ...

It is very simple to record sex, and add a record for preferred gender if people need it. Absolutely absurd to extrapolate the preference of a very tiny percentage of the population to cause confusion and upset to so many.

They must be getting a lot of laugh responses, RVN. I was asked how my 6 yo identifies and just couldn't help but burst out laughing. What utter nonsense. The HCP went very quiet and didn't ask it again.

I wonder if anyone has considered how this undermines public confidence and faith in the NHS? Hm ...

All this talk about the NHS computer system not coping with two fields sex/gender.

Why not just keep sex for born sex and use Mr/Ms for gender so they know how to address them?

It's bloody healthcare and puts trans people at risk to mess with this.

Asking men if they are pregnant makes healthcare workers look like imbeciles.

DH has a scan today on his bladder, I wondered for a moment if he would be asked the question and what his reply would be... then I realised he is well over 60 so he won't be.

But.. should he tell them he identifies as a 40 year old? obviously he isn't (but equally obviously he isn't a woman) - would they have to ask the pregnancy question then? After all it makes as much sense as identifying as a woman does (ie. none at all.)

Crazy world, crazy people in it at the moment. Nothing new there but what IS new is professional bodies, including, astonishingly, health care (based entirely on biology ffs) altering policies and protocols to fit in with what they must KNOW is a total fiction?!

It all sounds harmless (if stupid) until you think about young people, autistic people, people in pain, people with dementia, people who don't speak much English.

Absurd, but also harmful because it makes doctors look incompetent and it confuses people.

harmful because it makes doctors look incompetent and it confuses people.

Yes, has there been any kind of risk assessment on what the possible consequences might be? I would bet £50 that they 'risk assessed' the impact on trans people but didn't bother widening that to anyone else.

I seem to recall this happening with the single sex policy - the risk assessment only included special people and disregarded women entirely.

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

I'm very obviously male. If was ever asked by a medical professional if I was pregnant I would seriously doubt any of the advice they were giving me.

I think I might start asking all my fiftysomething male patients if they could be pregnant before referring them for imaging or prescribing medication that's best avoided in pregnancy. And keep a tally of how many are offended vs. how many think it's funny and offer it to a professional journal for publication.

I just wonder what would happen if a biological man who "identified" as a woman, appeared in A&E with a massive testicular tumour or something.
Would the doctors just ignore it or would their hand be forced to say, "well, actually your testicle is the size of a grapefruit and you have a tumour". What if the "lady" denied that they had testicles?
At what point does the medic have the right to call out the bullshit and just treat the body? Can they over-ride the "reality" of the patient?

I don't know. I think we are well and truly down the path of insanity and I'm not sure there is a way back.

Gender ideology has no place in medicine. Ever.

I honestly don't know, RVN. My family member has mentioned that it really impedes his consultation when presented with an obvious male but he's not allowed to say so.

RVN123

I just wonder what would happen if a biological man who "identified" as a woman, appeared in A&E with a massive testicular tumour or something.
Would the doctors just ignore it or would their hand be forced to say, "well, actually your testicle is the size of a grapefruit and you have a tumour". What if the "lady" denied that they had testicles?

I think the belief-system is: There are different kinds of ladies - some have a vulva and some have testicles. This one has a tumour in her testicle!

@DomesticatedZombie

They must be getting a lot of laugh responses, RVN. I was asked how my 6 yo identifies and just couldn't help but burst out laughing. What utter nonsense. The HCP went very quiet and didn't ask it again.

I wonder if anyone has considered how this undermines public confidence and faith in the NHS? Hm ...

I hope they faithfully record all answers from paeds patients regarding how they identify. And indeed the rate at which said identities can change or determinedly persist. And that the astronauts, bears, cats, dinosaurs, explorers, fairies, giraffes, horses, [ice] princesses, jungle-beasts, kangaroos, lions, mice, ninjas, octopuses, penguins, queens, rabbits, superheroes, trains, upside-down people, voles, wombats, x-ray fish, zebra & their peers are accepted & feel safe & valid. Not like when other grown-ups say things like “don’t be silly” or “speak English please, don’t squeak at me” or “STOP EATING THE CAT FOOD!!!”

If NHS Trusts going to ask the question, they should get the answer. They deserve it. More to the point, they deserve complaints to PALS, with unsatisfactory responses escalated to the Trust CEO.

Honestly this puts us healthcare professionals into such stupid and awkward positions!!!

When I was giving the flu vaccine there is a question that states “are you, or could be pregnant?” And I genuinely have to ask every person regardless if they are clearly a man! Luckily they all just laughed but it made me feel so stupid.

You have to be so careful these days what you say and I do sometimes forget that I have to refer to every patient as they/them.

"History repeats itself, first as tragedy then as farce" - Marx.

Looks like the history of gender identity has fast forwarded to reach farce in record time.

The professional body that governs the imaging people have produced guidelines and training events in this.
The recommendations are prefaced by a glossary of terms, including cisgender and chestfeeding.
This is presented as best practice and as I say, all are being trained to ask this now.

www.sor.org/news/radiation-protection/sor-publishes-guidance-on-gender-diversity-and-pre

mAvingOops

If someone lies about their biological sex to a HCP, I'm inclined to let them take the consequences of that and absolve the health services of any responsibility.

Yes yes yes!!!
Absolutely agree.
If you lie on the paperwork regarding your sex/ gender and subsequently a negative outcome occurs for you, that is totally on you, and the health service cannot be held responsible.
Really pisses me off how people are so unwilling to take any personal responsibility for themselves these days.

@RVN123

Yes the NHS is well an truly captured. My Mum had a stroke 2 weeks ago. She is in her 70s. The first question they asked her when the consultant came to see her in A&E was, wait for it.................."How do you identify".

To an OBVIOUS woman in her 70s.
Who'd just had a stroke.
Who doesn't know or give a crap about gender ideology.
Who was confused enough after just having A STROKE.

I felt like punching the doctor.
I did however, laugh in their faces.

They had the decency to look a little embarrassed.

The NHS is fucked.

How the fuck did we get to this?

If a man in such a consultation he doesn't know whether he may be pregnant or not, what's the next step? Do they have pregnancy tests for men?

I'm so sick of the tiny % forcing this absolute bullshit on everyone else. Why is their poor mental health being pandered to at everyone else's expense?

I just wonder what would happen if a biological man who "identified" as a woman, appeared in A&E with a massive testicular tumour or something.

i don't think that would happen though unless the patient had a very particular form of gender dysphoria? Because we often hear about female penises (no matter what we might think of the language) so clearly some transwomen have no isseue with these body parts.

I look at it like the ID checks if you're buying alcohol. If they ask everyone then nobody gets their back up. But i do worry that people with less developed language abilities might be confused (so ND or EFL or something like that) so i am also on the side of using very clear language.

I'm also in favour of having sex and gender fields on forms for this kind of reason.

I can confirm my DH (early 60s) was asked before he had an MRI. The questioner was embarrassed and said 'I'm sorry, but I need to ask you this'.

what a joke. DH immediately twigged why he was asked because I bang on about this stuff all the time. He just said he commiserated with the radiographer for having to ask such a stupid question. Got a rueful nod in return.

I did one of my student nurse placements on a pre and post op ward.
The pre-op forms where the same for both sex, I assumed it was because they couldn't be bothered to do 2 forms.
One of the questions was could the patient be pregnant, most of our patients were elderly so nobody actually asked unless a woman young enough to conceive and occasionally asked a man if he had a sense of humour that would find it funny.

I'm now wondering if there were once different forms for male/ female.

It doesn't actually matter what stereotypes a person conforms too really does it? All dysphorias are relevant to care and should be in their medical history. But their sex is far more relevant in most if not every case.