Sir Keir Starmer on women's rights, sport, and penises, in LBC interview

[IsitM]

Not an original description, but 'car crash' is appropriate. From 9.30 this morning; if you want to listen to the whole thing.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/call-keir/sir-keir-live-march-28/

www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-lashes-out-intolerance-transgender-issues/

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@FemaleAndLearning

What also pisses me off is when a question is asked on women (as above on the Mumsnet chat with Starmer) and the answer is trans rights are human rights. What the fuck!

I'm still raging about his cowardly stance on this. And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

Yes. Trans rights are human rights. Women aren't human and don't have any rights. An election winning slogan, not.

@saleorbouy

Once again the Labour leadership have no sense of conviction in a sensible debate. Just as Corybn sat on the fence over Brexit Kier sits on the fence over the status of women in society. Dithering on the fence to assess which way public opinion falls seems to be the Labour way and makes the party and Leadership feeble and unelectable.

You know, that is a really interesting comparison, and maybe worth exploring.

Yet that's what is demanded by both transwomen who want those rights to be totally redefined as unrelated to the sexed body, and trans men and nonbinary female-bodied peole who want the female body not to be called female any longer

Yep and therefore a total ignoring of all the decades of evidence which shows biological females disadvantage and oppression - not one bit of which was based on anyone's identity. So either they don't care about those proven facts or... oh hang about, there is no 'or'. They're just demonstrating that they don't care. We need a viable labour leader who actually truly believes in equality, not just equality for men however they choose to identify.

@Swayingpalmtrees

I am truly wondering why Starmer and Labour ARE so deeply invested in the first place. Why? Donors maybe?

Why is there such an entrenched position that is so alienating to 51% of the population? Not to mention themselves, family members etc or do they imagine the coal face of consequences will not be experienced by them?

Yes, this is what baffles me too.

I know the trans movement is massively well funded, and of course Big Pharma benefits from people on lifelong medication. Also, anyone can be corrupted. But money doesn't (to me) seem enough of a motivation to career politicians, whose politics are their lives.

I know transactivists can make life hell for anyone who crosses them. But come on, a whole political party could stand up against them!

I know 'social justice' ideology with its very partial hierarchy of victimhood has skewed a lot of people's view of justice and fair play. But most politicians grew up before 'social justice' and identity politics gained such a hold over young people.

So why do they make themselves look like either fools or liars, by supporting an ideology very few adults believe in? Why do they parrot slogans that they know are easily disproved?

I'm not shocked that politicians may be stupid or dishonest. I'm just baffled that they should nail their colours to such a rickety mast.

I'm quite enjoying reading this Spectator piece inspired by Keir Starmers interview www.spectator.co.uk/article/starmer-won-t-talk-about-sex-and-gender-that-s-a-problem

Poor James Kirkup probably can’t type in in pe now without his autocorrect suggesting penis. Thanks again James for your consistently excellent, on the money articles on this issue over the last few years. 🍺

I'm also a bit surprised at the suggestion that people are uncomfortable saying the word penis.

Course, that could just be because in the last five or six years, I've personally said it 28,463 times.

@Swayingpalmtrees

I am truly wondering why Starmer and Labour ARE so deeply invested in the first place. Why? Donors maybe?

Why is there such an entrenched position that is so alienating to 51% of the population? Not to mention themselves, family members etc or do they imagine the coal face of consequences will not be experienced by them?

I think it's because it's part of a larger philosophy they are completely in thrall to. And in a lot of ways it's the most perfectly characteristic element.

Labour, and progressive political types generally, have adopted a worldview that sees human dignity as something that comes from validation of internalized identities, and social justice as equality of outcome in terms of these identities. Furthermore, individuals within these groups have no real autonomy or individuality politically speaking - one political position defines the identity (you aren't really black if you vote for Trump kind of approach,) their place in society and personal challenges are entirely determined by systemic social structure and their place in relation to other groups that are oppressors or oppressed.

That's how they see truth justice, and gender ideology is impossible to reject if that's what you believe.

I do wonder if Labour really want to be in power. This issue is huge and if they don’t sort this out and carry on with these sorts of interviews in the run up to the next GE they will be a laughing stock.

Starmer is certainly a small improvement on Corbyn but I don’t see any attempt at trying to get themselves ready to take on the Tories. I am no fan of Labour but a strong Opposition really helps and all they seem to do is moan and groan. They don’t seem to be interested in winning.

Saying the word penis is a no no. Exposing a penis to non consenting women and girls is fine so long as said penis identifies as she/her.

I know 'social justice' ideology with its very partial hierarchy of victimhood has skewed a lot of people's view of justice and fair play. But most politicians grew up before 'social justice' and identity politics gained such a hold over young people.

I think it's about this. Mainly because if you ask the same people about some other controversy under the same system , say about race issues, you will get very similar kinds of responses. So you get black Americans who are more conservative, or who question the data of organizations like BLM on police violence, and they are accused of all kinds of awful things. If you are not black you are likely to have even more serious consequences.

But the issue, don't these people remember what things were like before is a good one. KS is older than me, and I remember. Yet I meet large numbers of people my age who, when you talk to them, don't seem to remember at all.

It's weird.

Agree with almost everyone here, but mostly wonder why he's taken this stand and if there's any chance of it changing. The fact that Johnson mentioned biology suggests the Tories see it as a potential vote winner. Johnson will say whatever he thinks will win him votes of course so some research must have been done. Whose focus groups are correct?

Like @tabbycatstripy I don't think millions of votes will change over this issue ☹️ but many constituencies remain very close and women's rights might matter in some of them.

I doubt Labour will shift on this though. Too many vested interests now and too much of a chance that many MPs will turn on him.

When I was in primary school me and a friend kept laughing during sex ed at the word 'penis' and my teacher wrote my mum a very stern letter saying I had been taken out of lessons until I was mature enough to say the word without giggling. My mum found this hilarious. If I was a politician I wouldn't be able to talk about this topic without laughing. Maybe Keir was a particularly serious child?

Just listened to him again. He said "all adult females are women". What about transmen? What about females who call themselves not non-binary. Obviously I think they are also women but I thought the schtick was that that aren't. Which is why we have to say cervix-havers and all that shit.
Anyone would think he gave a panicky response to pander to the prostate havers because they count and cervix havers don't.

@jenny5000

Agree with almost everyone here, but mostly wonder why he's taken this stand and if there's any chance of it changing. The fact that Johnson mentioned biology suggests the Tories see it as a potential vote winner. Johnson will say whatever he thinks will win him votes of course so some research must have been done. Whose focus groups are correct?

Like @tabbycatstripy I don't think millions of votes will change over this issue ☹️ but many constituencies remain very close and women's rights might matter in some of them.

I doubt Labour will shift on this though. Too many vested interests now and too much of a chance that many MPs will turn on him.

I think millions of votes will change over this issue. Because he is going to be interviewed about this again and again. And every time that happens he is going to look like a shambling pratt. And even if viewers don't understand the issues they are going to notice Starmer looks shifty, pissed off, incompetent and completely unelectable

This will be Labour's undoing. It's literally the only thing the Tories can get them on.

Leaving the EU used to be a niche issue that no one cared about.

@bellinisurge

Leaving the EU used to be a niche issue that no one cared about.

Yep

@bellinisurge

This will be Labour's undoing. It's literally the only thing the Tories can get them on.

Yep

I remember you and I getting a real thread kicking before the last GE @bellinisurge (I had a different mn nn then..) because we said we wouldn't vote labour (or green or lib dem) because of their stance on self ID....

I wonder if those people still think we are over reacting on this issue? 🤔

I spoiled my ballot over it in the last GE. I'd do the same again. It's not new and it's not going away.

This will be Labour's undoing. It's literally the only thing the Tories can get them on

Agree.

@ResisterRex

I spoiled my ballot over it in the last GE. I'd do the same again. It's not new and it's not going away.

Yep

I hope millions of votes do change. I really do.

@Datun

I'm also a bit surprised at the suggestion that people are uncomfortable saying the word penis.

Course, that could just be because in the last five or six years, I've personally said it 28,463 times.

😀

16 year old dd used to think it was funny to tell me she was pregnant

I eventually said to her that until i could say the word penis or vagina in her presence without her shrieking and running off i knew she wasn’t pregnant