Sir Keir Starmer on women's rights, sport, and penises, in LBC interview

[IsitM]

Not an original description, but 'car crash' is appropriate. From 9.30 this morning; if you want to listen to the whole thing.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/call-keir/sir-keir-live-march-28/

www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-lashes-out-intolerance-transgender-issues/

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508363760834129921?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508364365367492615?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508365179708485634?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

I wish he would come on MN - there is no way he would be brave enough though.

Fgs its childishly easy.

Provide Third Spaces, facilities, resources, services. Which are mixed sex, gender neutral, will be used by TQ+ people and Layla Moran and the many other women who are happy to use mixed sex spaces, plus parents with opposite sex children. It's progressive, inclusive, the blueprint on how to do it is right there and has been done before when providing accessible toilets became law, government and LA funding plus the big TQ+ charities pushing for this - it could be up and done in a couple of years at most.

PLUS require that female only facilities are also provided so that no female people are left with only mixed sex inaccessible options and services and resources. And require that these are gatekept and the message clearly given to all male people that these spaces are for females only, that female inclusion and access will be stood up for, and that they cannot deprive others of access or refuse to respect other people's equality of need.

And then lets address the real elephant in the room, which is why the political lobby know damn well they daren't shift to this obvious, everyone wins and everyone is equal answer.

And then explain to the electorate why they will not tell male voters that female voters are not their resources, and are not regarded as equal to males in the UK in 2022.

Starmer, I'm waiting.

MN would have to disable the biscuit button

Knowing that men are not, never have been and never will be women is not an extreme position and it boils my piss when ppl behave as if it is

He’s been on MN. Just prior to lockdown? We know what his preferred biscuit was at that particular minute.

Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3810484-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Sir-Keir-Starmer-MP-on-Monday-February-3-at-1-30pm?pg=1

And then lets address the real elephant in the room, which is why the political lobby know damn well they daren't shift to this obvious, everyone wins and everyone is equal answer.

And then explain to the electorate why they will not tell male voters that female voters are not their resources, and are not regarded as equal to males in the UK in 2022.

Exactly.

The only, single, solitary issue with a third space is there is no validation to it.

As you say, it's a ridiculously simple and straightforward solution, and one that would absolutely uphold the equality act.

But it's not even being mentioned, because you would have to acknowledge that transwomen are not actually women.

The third space is a validation free zone and therefore not to be countenanced.

@MarshaBradyo

When it comes to women’s rights it’s crucial we can speak clearly on it.

Fudging, talking about rabbit holes, extremism or hiding behind ideas of tolerance are all ways to stop women talking about it.

Exactly this. It's not helping anyone that in order to avoid possibly offending we have to bend and twist reality and actual biological fact. I want to support Labour but as the parent on girls this is too important to let go. Having said this I would like to see Torys quizzed equally hard on this issue.

Fudging, talking about rabbit holes, extremism or hiding behind ideas of tolerance are all ways to stop women talking about it.

Quite.

All this coyness is ridiculous. I want to know, straight out: Is my identity and sex class of 51% of the population now a dirty word because it's more important not to distress less than 1% of male people?

Why are we sensitive to some people's language and choice of identity and other people can just get stuffed?

Why are we all for this 'inclusive exclusion' that essentially means some male people get more choice and some female people get stripped of access to anything at all?

HOW is this not male supremacism you absolute muppets?

Many people, when faced with having to say something about transgenderism which will appear to be 'unkind' towards a vulnerable young person they know who is caught up in this, will try to avoid the question.

I don't think it's a case of 'follow the money' in this case. I think it's much more personal, and is to do with the fact that so many children, in particular teenage girls, now identify as trans. I think it was Emily Thornberry who mentioned at one point that she has a close relative who identifies as a transman. How many other MPs are in a similar position, or have a close friend whose child identifies as transgender, making them terrified to speak out because of the potential personal consequences and the effect they think this will have on the vulnerable young person?

I wonder how it is that this is treated so differently from other youth cultures? I mean young people have always tried to find something to wind up the generation above them. But this time instead of gently pushing back the generation above seem hell bent on enabling it to the point that they are creating crazy laws, stamping down on free speech and encouraging the medicalisation of children. I mean wtf can't the grown ups just go "you can do what you like once you are 18 but until then..." why is everyone bending over backwards to pander to what is clearly a trend?

[quote Camdenish]Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/3810484-Webchat-with-Labour-leadership-contender-Sir-Keir-Starmer-MP-on-Monday-February-3-at-1-30pm?pg=1[/quote]
The relevant posts seem to be:

"
StealthPolarBear
Hello Keir
More than 200 of us are worried about gender issues and the conflict with the rights of women and children.
These are issues that affect the fundamental rights of half the population. They are across every conceivable layer of public policy, and affect us from cradle to grave. The issues are varied, ranging from men on women's sport, the impact of self ID on women's safety, the spousal exit clause and the emphasis on transition of children, including puberty blockers.
Are you concerned about any or all of these issues? How do you plan to ensure the rights of natal women and children?

Thank you for this question - I know it’s a really important topic on Mumsnet and for parents.
Trans rights are human rights. I have met with members of the trans community and I know this is a group of people who have been subjected to incredible abuse and discrimination for a very long time.
But this conversation has become incredibly heightened, and I do understand the points being made on all sides. But if we just treat this as a political football, we are not being fair to anyone. I do believe we need to update the Gender Recognition Act. But what we need right now is a respectful dialogue that doesn’t pit one set of concerns against others. If elected leader, that’s a dialogue I would want to help facilitate.

rogdmum
Hi Keir

My 14 year old daughter recently announced that she identifies as a boy. She falls under the loose description of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) where adolescents who did not show any signs of gender identity issues as children, develop gender confusion as adolescents. Many of these adolescents are autistic or have suffered from trauma or have serious mental health issues.

Referrals to the Tavistock clinic have skyrocketed from around 100 a decade ago to 2600 last year. The Government agreed to carry out an investigation into the sudden rise, but it appears to have vanished into some hole somewhere.

What will you do to raise awareness of this issue and ensure a proper investigation is carried out?

Thanks rogdmum for this question and for sharing your family's experience. I'm acutely aware of the anxiety and distress that this causes to individuals and families. This has to be seen as a human rights issue and we need to ensure that this debate is conducted respectfully and calmly, and with the best interests of children at heart."

TL:DR?
"Updating" the GRA is a goal ✅
Trans rights are human rights ✅
Women raising concerns about their rights will be told to be calm, their rights won't be recognised in answers ✅
Women raising concerns about ROGD will be told to be calm, the rights of children to grow unmedicalised and (likely) into same-sex attracted adults won't be recognised in answers ✅

Whole thing is pointless.

Provide Third Spaces, facilities, resources, services. Which are mixed sex, gender neutral, will be used by TQ+ people and Layla Moran and the many other women who are happy to use mixed sex spaces, plus parents with opposite sex children. It's progressive, inclusive, the blueprint on how to do it is right there and has been done before when providing accessible toilets became law, government and LA funding plus the big TQ+ charities pushing for this - it could be up and done in a couple of years at most.

This.

Times have gone with the use of the Land Rover. The Telegraph with the 'penis' question.
Over 1200 comments

Hopefully someone may have an archive version.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/03/28/keir-starmer-refuses-answer-whether-woman-can-have-penis-latest

@Swayingpalmtrees

I am truly wondering why Starmer and Labour ARE so deeply invested in the first place. Why? Donors maybe?

Why is there such an entrenched position that is so alienating to 51% of the population? Not to mention themselves, family members etc or do they imagine the coal face of consequences will not be experienced by them?

Donors was my theory too, especially after reading of the LP's financial woes. Shame they pissed off JKR really.

But this still doesn't answer it in full. Imagine KS admitted that women and women and TW are TW. For sure, there'd be an almighty tantrum, but honestly, then what?

We are still 2.5 years out from an election. Time enough for the tantrummers to stop stomping. It's not like they are going to vote Tory.

we need to ensure that this debate is conducted respectfully and calmly

And preferably with no words involved at all

This from the shut your eyes, cross your fingers and hope frantically that the nasty bits of reality can be hidden under a rug somewhere school of politics.

Asked by a caller whether it was fair that transgender women were allowed to compete in women’s sports, Sir Keir said it was a matter “for the sporting bodies to decide for themselves”, acknowledging that there were “difficult questions”.

Will fucking answer them then, you dingbat!

Honestly, this is ridiculous. I want to talk, we need to talk, we need to remain calm, but I can't actually formulate any words to do with it.

Leave it up to the sporting bodies. Christ. Copout King.

Don't know if any of you listen to the 'For the Many ' podcast with Iain Dale and Jacqui Smith, but this was discussed briefly on the podcast this week and at the time it made me unaccountably furious and I've been trying to put into words why.

Iain said he will never ask the question 'What is a woman' because it's a cheap gotcha, Jacqui just vilely dismissive of any women who raises a concern, I've never heard her sound so nasty about any other topic or so dismissive or so willing to dismiss concerns as ignorance.
I think she's an important figure in the NHS in her area, was wondering if any of the women who've contacted Baroness Nicholson work/were treated in her health authority.

Anyway it was the nasty aggressive tone from Smith that really got me, frankly she sounded no better than any TRA on twitter and this was the day after the meeting in Manchester was disrupted. And after listening to it I want them to lose, I want them to lose badly, really badly, I want them to learn to show some respect to their potential voters. She couldn't conceive why it mattered to women, she just couldn't understand it.

And the longer it goes on, the more it becomes THE issue for so many women. I never miss their podcast, I love it, but I was so incensed at their attitude that I don't even know if I can listen again. It just felt that I had nothing in common with them whatsoever and it really upset me, but then of course it made me more angry and more determined to keep buggering on.

So Kier - Are you making everything mixed sex? Mixed sexed changing rooms, mixed sexed prisons and mixed sex sports?

Having watched this, i do think Keir is cracking slightly - he knows it's utter bullshit, he knows the electorate aren't buying it and he knows that he is losing loads of support because of this issue. He's not stupid and I am actually kind of fascinated to see how this will play out. Of course at the same time it's completely depressing to see that for so long they thought they could take women for such utter mugs.

@Datun

Asked by a caller whether it was fair that transgender women were allowed to compete in women’s sports, Sir Keir said it was a matter “for the sporting bodies to decide for themselves”, acknowledging that there were “difficult questions”.

Will fucking answer them then, you dingbat!

Honestly, this is ridiculous. I want to talk, we need to talk, we need to remain calm, but I can't actually formulate any words to do with it.

Leave it up to the sporting bodies. Christ. Copout King.

Exactly they have their hands tied by the law and being accused of being intolerant by idiots like him .

@Hasselhoffsheadband

Having watched this, i do think Keir is cracking slightly - he knows it's utter bullshit, he knows the electorate aren't buying it and he knows that he is losing loads of support because of this issue. He's not stupid and I am actually kind of fascinated to see how this will play out. Of course at the same time it's completely depressing to see that for so long they thought they could take women for such utter mugs.

Yes but it’s a bit like brexit if they don’t commit to some type of opinion the voters will get bored of trying to get a straight answer and being treated like fools.

Just listened again. Slimy bastard accusing people of intolerance because they don't want to let men into women's spaces. Slimy bastard pretending that he supports 'women's safe spaces' when all he really supports is his own career and fuck who pays the price. That man is disgusting. He can't even be bothered to take his head out his arse long enough to realise that saying 'I support women's spaces' whilst refusing to acknowledge what a woman actually is means jack shit. I have the rage against this kind of enabling arsehole .

What also pisses me off is when a question is asked on women (as above on the Mumsnet chat with Starmer) and the answer is trans rights are human rights. What the fuck!

I'm still raging about his cowardly stance on this. And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

They can't arrest us all!!!!

@FemaleAndLearning

What also pisses me off is when a question is asked on women (as above on the Mumsnet chat with Starmer) and the answer is trans rights are human rights. What the fuck!

I'm still raging about his cowardly stance on this. And I have just learnt I'm an extremist. Do I hand myself in to the police?

Trans people deserve the same rights as all humans do. They don't deserve women's hard-won rights as well.

Yet that's what is demanded by both transwomen who want those rights to be totally redefined as unrelated to the sexed body, and trans men and nonbinary female-bodied peole who want the female body not to be called female any longer.

When you do those things the sex class 'women' goes up in smoke. Poof. So it can't have any particular sex-based rights.