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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sir Keir Starmer on women's rights, sport, and penises, in LBC interview

259 replies

IsitM · 28/03/2022 11:06

Not an original description, but 'car crash' is appropriate. From 9.30 this morning; if you want to listen to the whole thing.

www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/call-keir/sir-keir-live-march-28/

www.lbc.co.uk/news/keir-starmer-lashes-out-intolerance-transgender-issues/

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508363760834129921?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508364365367492615?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

twitter.com/LBC/status/1508365179708485634?s=20&t=k2pIF3WY0Y3dlwWEkwlz7w

OP posts:
minsmum · 28/03/2022 13:38

I had a Labour party candidate on the doorstep the other day canvassing. I told him why I wouldn't be voting for him. His answer was it's not my area of expertise, my response was women are 51% of the population it flaming well should be

saleorbouy · 28/03/2022 13:38

Once again the Labour leadership have no sense of conviction in a sensible debate. Just as Corybn sat on the fence over Brexit Kier sits on the fence over the status of women in society.
Dithering on the fence to assess which way public opinion falls seems to be the Labour way and makes the party and Leadership feeble and unelectable.

Signalbox · 28/03/2022 13:38

Are you popping over for a cervix haver lunch later?

Don’t forget not all cervix havers have given birth so it would have to be birthing parents day. God knows what fathers day will become. Maybe sperm donors day.

Swayingpalmtrees · 28/03/2022 13:38

"All adult females are women, of course they are."

I understood he meant that all adult females that 'identify' as women are female of course they are.

Therefore able to comfort the biological women listening that he still 'sees' us, and of course keeping the other groups happy as they know what he really means. I am sure he thought long and hard about his genius line.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:40

'His answer was it's not my area of expertise...'

So he literally admitted he couldn't represent you but asked for your vote anyway?

bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 13:41

If Starmer can't stand up and speak the truth about this, he's too weak to be PM. And I know the current sack of horse shit isn't fit either.
I know Labour is a broad church and all that but it shouldn't be so broad that it puts AGP apologists before women like Rosie Duffield.

SirVixofVixHall · 28/03/2022 13:41

He is spineless and weasely.
Frankly I am now feeling I will vote for anyone with a spine. Whatever party they represent .

Torunette · 28/03/2022 13:42

@AuntyFungal

I get Labour want self ID. I just can’t find it on their website.

I want to see if there’s been any analysis of proposed changes and their effects.

I want to see/hear from Labour (or the other parties) what this would mean in law. Consequences of the changes to the GRA/GRC and how this would affect the Eq Act - either intended or unintended. Because it will.

& not just Eq Act. It will bleed into other areas. SEND, Children’s Act, Education Act, Health, Employment etc…. Change one thing and you will need to change other dependent sections of legislation.

This is why I want to see the politicians pinned down on what they want to change & then the journo follow the thread. This has always gone beyond women’s and children’s rights. It’s just we’re the ones are the sharp end.

I want to hear more than the pithy sound bites and tired tropes.

This.

I'm interested to see whether there would be a reversal process allowed. The GRC process effectively kills the prior identity and creates a new one, which causes havoc with medical, NI and tax records. In the new identity, you have no right to access the records of the former identity. In many ways, it is a similar situation to someone who is legally declared dead by mistake.

If self-id echoes this process, then there will need to be checks and balances to avoid self-id-ers from losing the connection to their former records held under their deadname/deadgender -- this is very awkward under GDPR.

There will also need to be a mechanism by which informed consent is given and verified to prevent the system being misused, abused or people being coerced. Would it, for example, be an easier way to side-step the consequences of criminal convictions, bankruptcies?

The only conceptual approach I can see that would work in terms of legislation is to approach each individual as "an unsubscribed unit" that then acquires "subscriptions" as they journey through life, and that these subscriptions can change as and when: name, gender/sex, disability, maternity, age, race, religion, marital status etc. So no-one is ever perceived to be a constant member of a specific class, iyswim; everything is in flux.

But something will need to be static for identity purposes. What will that be, aside from birth date?

It's really odd that Labour, with their background in class consciousness and their obsession with identity politics, do not see this.

It's also, obviously, supportive of performance as "reality". This, I find, even more alarming.

Lottapianos · 28/03/2022 13:42

'His answer was it's not my area of expertise, my response was women are 51% of the population it flaming well should be'

Jesus Christ. They cannot seriously think that is good enough. 'Nowt to do with me luv, it just never comes up on the doorstep '. FFS 🙄

Iggly · 28/03/2022 13:43

What is the Conservative position on this? I’m meaning to write to my local Tory MP.

I don’t think about of the parties have got this right but not sure why Labour are getting more of a hammering than the party who have been in charged for 12 years and have the power to do things we may not want them to.

Are they worried that we are currently ok now (are we???) and that any Labour government will make it worse?

TheGreatATuin · 28/03/2022 13:44

Starmer's a barrister. He should be able to understand how the law works and the implications of changing it, as well as understanding why definitions in law are important.
He either does understand all this and is lacking the backbone to speak up.
Or he doesn't understand it and is lacking in the ability to understand and navigate difficult issues.
IMO, whichever way you look at it, he's not qualified to be leader of the opposition and definitely not prime minister.

SpeedofaSloth · 28/03/2022 13:45

I really wish Starmer would just speak plainly and fearlessly about this issue, at least then I would have a clue on what Labour might actually do if they got into power, especially if in coalition with the Lib Dems. I have never felt so politically homeless before.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:45

The Tories have been better on this, but still not brilliant. They have ruled out self-ID and X marker passports, saying there are two sexes in UK law and it will stay that way.

They say they will protect single-sex spaces but there seems to be a spat between the Government Equalities Office and the EHRC about exactly how to do it, with the conflict being about the same thing as above: whether female-only spaces should always/sometimes/never admit TW and NB people and in what circumstances.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:46

@TheGreatATuin

Starmer's a barrister. He should be able to understand how the law works and the implications of changing it, as well as understanding why definitions in law are important. He either does understand all this and is lacking the backbone to speak up. Or he doesn't understand it and is lacking in the ability to understand and navigate difficult issues. IMO, whichever way you look at it, he's not qualified to be leader of the opposition and definitely not prime minister.
Neither. He genuinely believes the definition of woman has changed.
zanahoria · 28/03/2022 13:46

He wants an open discussion but does not want to contribute if it gets too tricky for him.

Iggly · 28/03/2022 13:51

@tabbycatstripy

The Tories have been better on this, but still not brilliant. They have ruled out self-ID and X marker passports, saying there are two sexes in UK law and it will stay that way.

They say they will protect single-sex spaces but there seems to be a spat between the Government Equalities Office and the EHRC about exactly how to do it, with the conflict being about the same thing as above: whether female-only spaces should always/sometimes/never admit TW and NB people and in what circumstances.

If that’s the case why are we ending up with men in women’s prisons then? And men pushing into say domestic violence shelters and rape centres?

That’s what I don’t get?

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:54

Iggly

I think on the whole it's because the Tories have tended to favour not legislating in favour of legislating. Many Tories believe in small government and 'leave it alone', and they don't like spending money. So while this takeover has been happening quietly, they've been content with it. Now it threatens free speech in universities and is resulting in much more exposure, they a) see that the ideology is damaging in a way they didn't before and b) see that it can damage Labour more than them.

We still have to persuade them out of their general 'leave it alone' mentality.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:55

That should say over legislating.

FannyCann · 28/03/2022 13:56

Do you suppose he said to his family Happy Cervix Haver day

Tutt tutt @Swayingpalmtrees

Keri said no one should say "only women have a cervix" it's an unspeakable phrase.

So he can't possibly identify the female members of his family by their ownership of a cervix. Or presumably at other exclusively female bits of anatomy. 🤷‍♀️

TabithaHazel · 28/03/2022 13:57

I can't work out why Starmer is deliberately making Labour unelectable - what exactly is going on here, does anyone know?

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:57

Someone on Twitter just told KS, 'Mumsnet is right. You do always look like your hand is caught in a drawer and you're trying not to show it.'

He definitely does.

ilovebencooper · 28/03/2022 13:57

I am astounded at how politically tone deaf Keir Starmer is on this issue. Why would he go to the trouble of tackling anti semitism and driving out the problematic hard left only to go on to alienate and horrify half the population? I guess they don't want to be elected.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 13:57

@TabithaHazel

I can't work out why Starmer is deliberately making Labour unelectable - what exactly is going on here, does anyone know?
Yes. He believes men can be women.
bellinisurge · 28/03/2022 14:01

He has a wife and, I think, at least one daughter. He has prosecuted men who commit violence against women. He's been in the Labour Party all his life so he will have met many LGB activists.
The idea that he doesn't really know what the issues are and needs to speak to people about it is FRANKLY LUDICROUS.
Lesbians and gay men are being called transphobic for not accepting transwomen or transmen as sexual partners.
Women's sport is under siege from cheating men.
Safeguarding is put at risk if women aren't allowed to have single sex spaces.
Predators became priests, teachers, TV personalities to access the vulnerable and ensure those victims wouldn't be believed. Do you seriously think a predator wouldn't just self-ID into that access if they could without any safeguards in place.
Claim there will be safeguards? Tell that to the woman raped and disbelieved in hospital. Tell that to women victims who should expect to be "re-educated out of their prejudice " by a man dressed as a woman who currently runs Edinburgh Rape Crisis.

tabbycatstripy · 28/03/2022 14:06

bellinisurge:

They often do, though, don't they? The Maughams, the Pullmans, the Alex Sobels. Just like people had wives and children when they were putting witches on ducking stools. It doesn't stop them being unable to see women as human beings with full agency and autonomy.