Male violence at the Oscars

[RoseslnTheHospital]

Is anyone else disappointed at the reaction to Will Smith's display of aggression at the Oscars? I am really surprised that they didn't have any security staff to remove him from the room when it was apparent what he had done. Everyone there just seemed paralysed into inaction. And then to see all those other men (Denzel Washington, Tyler Perry, Bradley Cooper) consoling and reassuring him, rather than escorting him out.

I'm also disappointed by the wider reaction, with so many people justifying his behaviour due to the (unfunny and vile) joke about his wife. I also think that it's a massive shame for Venus and Serena, that he has won an Oscar for a film about their lives, and yet this is the focus.

“No wonder we have such an epidemic of male violence in our society.”

This 100%

@DontLikeCrumpets

It looks staged to me.imo it was staged because fewer people watch the Oscars.

I agree. Both have cheeky little grins immediately after.

@NoNever @DontLikeCrumpets

Have you not watched the full video including Will Smith shouting afterwards?

There's no way his team would have agreed to this. There's no benefit in it to him. Or to Chris Rock.

And the Academy now needs to decide what action, if any, to take next. Whatever decision they make will be met with negative responses from many, many people.

As someone who has spent years and years working in PR, it's ridiculous to think this is an approved stunt / staged. It makes no sense at all.

So, according to "a source," Chris didnt know about her alopecia. He doesnt follow them or what they're doing so didnt know. The joke wasnt scripted, and he just saw her sitting in the front row with her shaved head and made a joke. He didnt know the background. Maybe explains why he looked to Will and said "it was a G.I. Jane Joke" with that bemused look he had.

@NoNever

Will has that stupid smile on his face when he slaps a reported on the red carpet.
He's just a man who enjoys using his position of power to be violent. It is usually just a light slap, just a way of making the point that he has that power and they need to atop asking questions he doesnt like. But this one went much further, and he is still getting away with it. That smile is just his normal attitude when he has been 'alpha Male' over someone.

@Porcupineintherough

Oh and when I was growing up the violence was not the worst thing. It did less damage than the emotional abuse.

Oh in the long term, the emotional shit is worse, but at the time, the visceral fear of your dad telling you he's going to kill you is worse. I'm guessing that wasn't a thing for you? Believe me, that's fucking scary

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Yes, I’ve seen it. It rings fake to me. That is was stupid/bad pr doesn’t change how I see it. So was Justin Timberlake ripping Janet Jackson’s shirt, but it still happened.

I had to sit on my hands on the threads elsewhere re this, due to the amount of apologists.

There is NO way that this was staged. If, by some miracle, it was - then both of their management/PR teams need sacking immediately. But that’s highly unlikely, as it wasn’t staged.

Basic facts are, yet another man feels it’s ok to make an “hilarious” dig at a woman’s appearance. And said man is so “comfortable” in his important role as the host of an award/his career as a comic, that he won’t stop for a minute to think how those few words could hurt someone.

Targeted woman responds with a very obvious eye roll. If only it had been left there. That eye roll said it all. And then idiot comedian doubles down on the joke being “a good one” or words to that effect.

Cue second industry ego “has” to take action. Calmly walks up and lamps the first, then calmly walks back to his seat - and then displays obvious anger shouting at the first guy. Using language that is NOT accepted on TV there as readily as it is excused here in the UK.

Cue to shots from the ad break. A few stars talking to/consoling WS. WTF wasn’t he straight back to his wife who he was so “valiantly” defending. And then, in his speech, to say that “love” makes you do crazy things.

Chris Rock is just another example of how vile comedic acts can be. Will Smith is just another example of using his “property” to excuse a violent outburst.

This will probably get me flamed, but Jada is an example of the possible repercussions of airing your private life to the public. I am NOT blaming her - and I have no truck with “look what you made me do”. But I am voicing an opinion with regards to “public” relationships. I think the pair of them have huge issues that haven’t been addressed properly, but which have been somewhat willingly shared. It’s not a good mix. As a couple, they need to sort their shit out for the sake of them and their kids.

What CR did was wrong, no doubt about it. But WS reaction is what needs to be called out. There is NO excuse for it. And I’m still shocked at the number of posters on various threads who are basically saying “good on him, he was defending his “property”.

As an aside, am feeling for the other winners whose awards have been overshadowed by everyone reacting to yet more male violence.

[quote NoNever]@youvegottenminuteslynn

Yes, I’ve seen it. It rings fake to me. That is was stupid/bad pr doesn’t change how I see it. So was Justin Timberlake ripping Janet Jackson’s shirt, but it still happened.[/quote]
You are seriously deluded re this.

There is NO way the management/PR/entourages around those people would readily agree to this.

@furries

And you’re seriously rude. You don’t need to attack me personally just because I see things differently than you.

[quote NoNever]@youvegottenminuteslynn

Yes, I’ve seen it. It rings fake to me. That is was stupid/bad pr doesn’t change how I see it. So was Justin Timberlake ripping Janet Jackson’s shirt, but it still happened.[/quote]
Honestly, as someone who has worked in PR for a long time... it absolutely wasn't staged.

Because a global household name worth hundreds of millions of dollars, who is (was?) thought of fondly across the world, who is getting academy recognition and being taken seriously as an actor after decades in the industry, agreeing to the staging that would be utterly ludicrous and pointless.

Anyway he's just posted a textbook apology along the lines I predicted earlier on this / another thread. Including the 'deep regret' comment I knew would be in there.

What CR did was wrong, no doubt about it. But WS reaction is what needs to be called out. There is NO excuse for it. And I’m still shocked at the number of posters on various threads who are basically saying “good on him, he was defending his “property”.

Where are you seeing this "property" thing?

I'm wondering that because there is so much fakery online maybe people get so sceptical, they just assume stuff isn't real.

The acid test is what possible benefit it would have for those concerned. They both look dreadful.

Will Smith, one of the worlds most famous and popular actors, who was just about to get an Oscar, doesn't need the (desperately negative) publicity of a 'stunt'.

@Clymene can believe it. No, the violence was only "light": slaps and kicks - and one choking incident which was more disturbing. I'm sure if he'd been beating the crap out of me the psychological scars would have been massive . As it was, it was the threats (burning down the house with us in it if my mum dared divorce him was a favourite) and the general denegration (all along the lines of how stupid I was) that did the most damage. And the contrast with the other side of him which was kind and loving - total mindfuck.

Their facial expressions and obvious waiting to see audience reaction between the joke, the slap, the first declaration, followed by the louder declaration…..it doesn’t feel right. And yes, I’ve seen the “apology.” Janet Jackson apologized too - saying it was a wardrobe malfunction when it was obviously intentional. The stunt flopped, it’s an easy out.

I’m totally okay with others disagreeing. I see actors acting. I don’t believe them.

But what benefit do you think a multi millionaire, up for his first Oscar, a global household name almost exclusively well liked, could gain from agreeing to staging something like this? Why on earth would he do it?

He wouldn't.

He didn't.

This was a genuine, spontaneous and disgusting physical assault.

[quote NoNever]@furries

And you’re seriously rude. You don’t need to attack me personally just because I see things differently than you.[/quote]
Apologies for upsetting you with regards to how I interpreted your opinion.

@MangyInseam

What CR did was wrong, no doubt about it. But WS reaction is what needs to be called out. There is NO excuse for it. And I’m still shocked at the number of posters on various threads who are basically saying “good on him, he was defending his “property”.

Where are you seeing this "property" thing?

The way he refers to her as “his wife”. The way he decides to take action on her behalf. Probably the way he feels after all of their life being in the public eye (affairs etc).

Essentially, that whole scenario was about him asserting his feelings about someone who “belongs” with him. She dealt with it perfectly (obvious eyeroll). He took it to another level.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

But what benefit do you think a multi millionaire, up for his first Oscar, a global household name almost exclusively well liked, could gain from agreeing to staging something like this? Why on earth would he do it?

He wouldn't.

He didn't.

This was a genuine, spontaneous and disgusting physical assault.

This - there is no way what happened was staged.

Let’s imagine how the “set up” meeting would have gone shall we? 🎶 dreamy music 🎶

Present: Will Smith, Chris Rock, Jada Pinkett-Smith, Academy members.

AM: So guys, viewing numbers for the Oscars are down, we need to do something to get people watching again. We have some ideas, want to see if you agree.

WS, CR, JPS: okay….(look suspicious)

AM: we think we need some sort of beef between you. People LOVE a beef. So we thought we could manufacture one between you, especially given, Chris, you know, you have a history of insulting Jada.

CR: Hold up one second, that was a joke a few-

AM: It doesn’t matter! The important thing is we sell some aggro, viewers are bound to tune in then!

JPS: But they won’t be watching this, you think they’ll tune in next year expecting the same?

AM: YES! Of course! That’s how television works! So, we thought Chris could insult Jada, Will can then proudly defend her honour, and everyone will come out smelling of roses. So what would be a good insult?

JPS: How about my alopecia, which I am extremely sensitive about, have only just disclosed properly in an emotional interview on day time TV? That’s just the sort of thing I would love to be mocked for.

AM: Perfect! Chris, could you make that work?

CR: Shit, of course I can! I’m Chris motherfuckin’ Rock! I can make a joke about anything! I’ll look like a complete asshole though. What’s in it for me?

AM: Well, of course everyone will see how cutting edge you are, and your flagging profile will only sky rocket from here. A lifelong successful stand up career and hosting the Oscars today, tomorrow, the world! Plus, you’ll be seen as the victim too.

CR: Victim? What the fuck? How’d you figure that?

AM: Well that’s the next part of our plan. We think after you make your joke, Will should get up on stage and - wait for it - slap you really hard in the face.

WS: Hold up, hold up, what did you say? Cos it kinda sounded like you said you wanted me to slap Chris Rock on stage at the Oscars.

AM: Yes! It will be perfect! You will look like a hero - a King, shall we say [chuckles] - for defending your wife’s honour, and Chris looks like a victim. What’s not to like?

JPS: Isn’t there a chance people see Will as the violent aggressor? How will that help his career which is flagging, despite banking billions for producers and being nominated for the best actor award?

AM: No, not at all. It’s not real violence if it’s just a slap defending his wife, surely!

WS: How about I protest strongly? Or walk out? Or get up on stage and NOT slap him, but point to my wife lovingly and implore Chris to apologise to her?

AM: Meeeh….

WS: Okay, okay [laughs] fair enough, there ain’t no pulling power in that! A slap it is!

AM: So we have a plan! Chris is going to make an insensitive joke about a topic Jada is uncomfortable with in front of millions worldwide, will look a bit like an asshole before he stops being the asshole when Will slaps him, Chris looks like a victim, Jada gets her medical condition out in public for all to see, Will looks like a hero and not in anyway violent or unstable and you’ll all come out of it positively to resurrect your flagging careers and boost our tv ratings. I’m not seeing any downsides here, agreed!

CR, WS, JPS: Agreed!

@youvegottenminuteslynn - and thank you for posting his “apology”. I think we’ve seen many of these crafted outpourings over time, and I’m now desensitised to them. They mean nothing. One of his team will have drafted the words - as will have happened for many of those before him. Obviously, I know that you know that! But just another sad example of crap being peddled.

@NotBadConsidering

Let’s imagine how the “set up” meeting would have gone shall we? 🎶 dreamy music 🎶

Present: Will Smith, Chris Rock, Jada Pinkett-Smith, Academy members.

AM: So guys, viewing numbers for the Oscars are down, we need to do something to get people watching again. We have some ideas, want to see if you agree.

WS, CR, JPS: okay….(look suspicious)

AM: we think we need some sort of beef between you. People LOVE a beef. So we thought we could manufacture one between you, especially given, Chris, you know, you have a history of insulting Jada.

CR: Hold up one second, that was a joke a few-

AM: It doesn’t matter! The important thing is we sell some aggro, viewers are bound to tune in then!

JPS: But they won’t be watching this, you think they’ll tune in next year expecting the same?

AM: YES! Of course! That’s how television works! So, we thought Chris could insult Jada, Will can then proudly defend her honour, and everyone will come out smelling of roses. So what would be a good insult?

JPS: How about my alopecia, which I am extremely sensitive about, have only just disclosed properly in an emotional interview on day time TV? That’s just the sort of thing I would love to be mocked for.

AM: Perfect! Chris, could you make that work?

CR: Shit, of course I can! I’m Chris motherfuckin’ Rock! I can make a joke about anything! I’ll look like a complete asshole though. What’s in it for me?

AM: Well, of course everyone will see how cutting edge you are, and your flagging profile will only sky rocket from here. A lifelong successful stand up career and hosting the Oscars today, tomorrow, the world! Plus, you’ll be seen as the victim too.

CR: Victim? What the fuck? How’d you figure that?

AM: Well that’s the next part of our plan. We think after you make your joke, Will should get up on stage and - wait for it - slap you really hard in the face.

WS: Hold up, hold up, what did you say? Cos it kinda sounded like you said you wanted me to slap Chris Rock on stage at the Oscars.

AM: Yes! It will be perfect! You will look like a hero - a King, shall we say [chuckles] - for defending your wife’s honour, and Chris looks like a victim. What’s not to like?

JPS: Isn’t there a chance people see Will as the violent aggressor? How will that help his career which is flagging, despite banking billions for producers and being nominated for the best actor award?

AM: No, not at all. It’s not real violence if it’s just a slap defending his wife, surely!

WS: How about I protest strongly? Or walk out? Or get up on stage and NOT slap him, but point to my wife lovingly and implore Chris to apologise to her?

AM: Meeeh….

WS: Okay, okay [laughs] fair enough, there ain’t no pulling power in that! A slap it is!

AM: So we have a plan! Chris is going to make an insensitive joke about a topic Jada is uncomfortable with in front of millions worldwide, will look a bit like an asshole before he stops being the asshole when Will slaps him, Chris looks like a victim, Jada gets her medical condition out in public for all to see, Will looks like a hero and not in anyway violent or unstable and you’ll all come out of it positively to resurrect your flagging careers and boost our tv ratings. I’m not seeing any downsides here, agreed!

CR, WS, JPS: Agreed!

Genius!

There's been a history of insults being thrown about by hosts of these type award ceremonies, thinly veiled as jokes. I can't remember exact details but Ricky Jervais springs to mind for one . Hopefully future hosts will think twice before trying to be edgy and taking cheap shots at people. However, Will Smith could easily have shamed Chris Rock using his words and not sinking even lower by hitting him.

That statement is a piece of genius if you consider the fact this world is emphatically not one of “love and kindness” - there’s already been the set-up of “I was provoked beyond all endurance” & now Chris Rock is being told that maybe the response wasn’t suitably “celebrity”, but “Real Men”, out there in the world, are on Will Smith’s side. Stressing family so much is partly going to be a response to an earlier host’s comment on his “period of being non-monogamous” - but casting himself as the paterfamilias again and again is about reasserting his authority, including over Rock. Men don’t slap other men like that - it’s how adults (who very often don’t think of it as violence) hit children. Maybe Smith had enough control to know that if he swung a fist he would be labelled a thug - the “violent black man” you shoot first & avoid questions about later; but if he was enraged enough to strike, that seems unlikely.

I suspect the reason Smith initially laughed at the joke was that he knew Rock was bound to make a joke at Pinkett-Smith’s expense. She boycotted the 2016 Oscar’s after all the Best Actor nominees were white (& Smith had been expected to be nominated); & Rock, hosting, made various comments including that her boycott was “like me boycotting Rihanna’s panties - I wasn’t invited!” (Apologies to anyone else who finds that sticks in their brain despite multiple bleachings…) I don’t understand why it should be part of Smith & Pinkett-Smith’s job (or any actor’s) to have spiteful things said about them under the guise of humour - in this case, not simply about them, but to them - & to be expected to laugh along. People being able to afford therapy as well as nice things doesn’t make it ok to be cruel to & about them.

Rock made a documentary in 2009 about how incredibly damaging the concept of “Good Hair” is. He called the film (which is really worth watching btw if you’ve not seen it - I’d not realised, until I checked the date to write this, that it came out so long ago now…) that because just those two words have so much weight & so many powerful associations. So he has no excuse at all for commenting on Pinkett-Smith’s hair even if one accepts he didn’t know she has alopecia. Even if he believed her hairstyle to be a choice, he knew highlighting it was wrong. What’s worse is that he knows exactly why it’s so wrong because he is black & he has daughters - excellent role-modelling all round.

Denzil Washington’s comment - which he may have meant quite literally, his father was a minister (Pentecostal) & he is still a practising Christian - was telling Smith to cop himself on before he loses it all. Smith identifies as Christian but not a member of a particular denomination - however, that’s the sort of admonition it would be reasonable to think his (Baptist) grandmother would have given him.

I’m conflicted about Smith’s use of “my wife” being taken to mean he sees her as a possession. It is perfectly usual to reference individuals connected to you as “my” - do you all think the intent behind Molly Weasley’s infamous “you will never touch my children again!” (or, should you favour the film adaptation: “not my daughter you bitch!”) when duelling Bellatrix LeStrange was a declaration of ownership? Saying “my wife” can be read as reaffirmation of his commitment to her - she is “Jada” to everyone there, but wife only to him & he’s going to show there’s no more non-monogamy & there are lines not to cross. It’s such an easy jump to make, but it is a jump. Had Smith referred to Pinkett-Smith as his “woman” that would be another thing entirely; but what he said can also be explained by “this is a totally usual & neutral thing” or “this is loaded, but regarding fidelity & the strength of our bond”, so it seems a dangerous assumption to make.

There can be no excusing Smith’s behaviour, but posts essentially accusing him of domestic violence off the back of this & the fact him “playfully” [NB not what I’d term it, but how he has been allowed to continue to perceive it] slapping press on red carpets for asking questions he dislikes hasn’t been stopped? You think that he’s managed to keep his violently explosive temper together at all previous public provocations; around their staff (there’s only so much silence you can buy); whenever his wife has needed to be seen in public & while she was working; & crucially, while his children were working & would thus be engaging with mandated reporters every day? We all know that sadly it’s never impossible, but on evidence as presented, it seems (thankfully) improbable to me.

(Am not a fan of any of those involved [though I did like “Good Hair”] so have no interest in finding a hero or a villain. As such I checked the information regarding religion; when the documentary came out; & the 2016 Oscar’s stuff. Posting half-remembered things didn’t seem as if it would be very helpful; but I don’t want to give the mistaken impression I’m interested because of who the specific individuals are.)

nitro

I agree

Especially about the good hair bit….it was a really interesting documentary

I quite often refer to my husband, my dad or my daughter etc and even if I considered dh to be my property (I don’t) I couldn’t possibly think that of dd