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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Former Trans Child of Gender Critical Parents (very long). *Trigger warning - descriptions of self harm and suicide* - Title edited by MNHQ

541 replies

pop91 · 26/03/2022 22:33

Hi,

To start I wanna say I'm writing this post in good faith to provide the viewpoint of a Trans person with Gender Critical parents but I know this is the internet and this will probably just be trolled to death but here goes.

I had a pretty regular 'happy' family setup, and apparently first told my parents of my identity at just 5yrs old but the first I remember is at 8yrs old when I refused to go by my 'very gendered' birth name but my parents insisted on using it especially publicly.

My parents were never particularly strict on gender roles in the home - my sister would wear my dad's glasses and jacket and stomp around with his briefcase in hand and my brother had an emo phase with heels and mascara to match and apart from some grumbling from my father it was never the biggest issue in our house.

Sexuality was different though even though my father would class himself as a pragmatic centrist, barring a socialist university phase, and my mother a card-carrying progressive New Labour type whose Best Friend was the most flamboyant gay man and an Aunt who lived with her 'friend' until she passed. There was an uncomfortableness with sexuality where both my parents would call it a lifestyle choice and opposed gay marriage - cut to three years ago when my older brother came out as bisexual and last month the youngest sister as a lesbian Grin but rest assured the other 3 siblings remain firmly 'normal.'

Back to me and by 12 I had started puberty and was experiencing debilitating gender dysphoria - I would look into the mirror and see nothing that matched my brain. I would continue to feel this way until the bullying and dysphoria got so bad that one night I climbed into my bathtub with a kitchen knife hoping I could change my body to fit my brain somehow I managed not to perform self-surgery in my bathtub.

A couple of months later I came clean to my parents, I wasn't expecting a big hug but I wasn't expecting what came next. They ignored it as if I had told them what I wanted for dinner, they decided they didn't hear what I had said at all.

Over the next year, the internet became my friend as I found ways to affirm my gender by doing hidden things at first and then slowly more outward things. I came out to my siblings and although they found it confusing my oldest brother and sister were a godsend who I wouldn't have survived without, They helped me pick out a new haircut and new clothes and we came up with a new name.

I came out in school and sure there was bullying but I was feeling so Euphoric that it almost didn't matter. When the teachers found out they informed my parents and that's when everything changed! My parents sat me down and said I was just confused. They threw out my new clothes, anything that I used to affirm my gender, even my shoes and magazines then they took my bedroom door off and took away my laptop and phone and forced my older siblings to refer to me by my birth name, my older brother and sister stopped supporting me and I lost my only family support and anything that was helping me.

Eventually, when they realised everything they had done hadn't worked and I still felt the same way, they decided to try both religious and non-religious conversion therapy which left permanent scarring to my mental health and I frequently have nightmares about it.

At 15 I had my first suicide attempt and my parents forced me to lie and say it was due just to bullying at school but that wasn't true it was the dysphoria and conversion therapy that was killing me.

From 15 to 17 I had multiple suicide attempts and after the third one, my parents finally allowed me to stop the conversion therapy but still forcibly live as my 'biological' sex.

Eventually, I managed to get to a great University and at 18 I socially transitioned and by 20 I had started hormones. I now have a job that provides me financial stability and have an amazing partner, with 2 children from a prior relationship that I now consider like my own. We are also now having a baby very soon.

My mother now describes herself as Gender Critical and frequently posts online about how she will be unable to see her grandchildren because of her views, which is true as I will not allow my parents to see either my child or stepchildren.

My parents continue to refuse to acknowledge my identity and pronouns. The last time we talked, she said she believes I am just gay, which neither makes sense considering my partner's gender nor the fact she also has a terrible relationship with my lesbian sister and bisexual brother who also rarely allows his child to visit my mum, due to her comments about their sexualities.

I finally have the support back of all my siblings and we do frequently gather without my parents. I hope one day my parents change their minds but honestly I don't hold much hope and I don't know if I could forgive what they did to me.

A lot of online trans activists wish trans children for Gender Criticals but I don't, it wasn't very nice at all. If you're going to ask if I think kids should transition, the answer is I don't know as I didn't transition as a child and a social transition helped plenty for me.

Well that's it I think, just the perspective and experience of a trans person with Gender Critical parents, feel free to ask any reasonable questions or respectful questions. Smile

OP posts:
Campervan69 · 27/03/2022 19:23

I find CIS to be offensive as although I am female, in no way do I identify with the sexist stereotypes associated with the female sex.

CIS is a neutral descriptor of anyone who isn't trans. It's like being offended by 'Straight' or 'White' or 'trans'. They are neutral descriptors that don't deny your identity as a biological woman because that's literally what it means.

So TIF or transgender identifying female is fine then as purely descriptive?

TIM or trans identifying male also fine. Neutral descriptors of biological reality.

pop91 · 27/03/2022 19:24

@BinBandit

Self indulgent pish. Your sex is biologically determined in every cell of your body but honestly, live how you like, just don't pretend to be what you aren't. Who looks in a mirror and thinks their brain doesn't match their body?
who looks in a mirror and thinks their brain doesn't match their body?

TRANS PEOPLE!

my sex might be but my gender isn't :)

OP posts:
WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:24

Wtf does it mean body fit brain

It's sexist. But when your early life is steeped in sexist stereotypes, it's hard to escape the narrative.

Soontobe60 · 27/03/2022 19:24

I avoided gendered language in my post as to not be subject to the 'truth telling' as I honestly don't require it, but for some reason, it felt important for people to work out that I am a trans man
We didn't need to work it out, you told us in another thread you've had running simultaneously alongside this one.

Cs “is a neutral term that doesn’t deny your identity as a biological woman because that literally what it means”
So you’re c
s then? As you're a biological woman?

Personally, I’m extremely offended by the term. It’s incorrect - I am not a sub set of a woman. There are no subsets. Just woman and man. There are a myriad adjectives that could be used to describe the noun woman - tall, white, old, young, GNC, gay, straight, bisexual. All of these are women. Adult human female. At least 2 of these adjectives could be used to describe yourself.

mudgetastic · 27/03/2022 19:26

It is offensive

It makes an assumption about someone that you think is true but the someone is telling you is a lie

It's more like calling a white person a thief

You are putting someone in a gender cage
Put yourself in a cage but don't trap anyone else

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/03/2022 19:27

You've already agreed that you know that "gender" is a harmful construct that is damaging for everyone. So why is it important to make your body match the gender you feel, rather than work on breaking down the gender construct as applied to yourself.

mudgetastic · 27/03/2022 19:27

I can't see my brain in the mirror

WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:28

Gina Rippon's your neuro scientist and battler of neurotrash.

Basically, neuroscience (and science) has been sexist and stereotypical from
the outset.

Data has been filtered through pink of blue narratives and we are in this pickle.

www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/05/the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon-review

And how the data is massacred

sfonline.barnard.edu/neurogenderings/eight-things-you-need-to-know-about-sex-gender-brains-and-behavior-a-guide-for-academics-journalists-parents-gender-diversity-advocates-social-justice-warriors-tweeters-facebookers-and-ever/

TheLoneRager · 27/03/2022 19:29

But fine let's say for argument's sake that Cis is actually offensive, what language do you propose we use for people who aren't trans

Why would you need language for people who aren't trans. You are trans and can use any language you like the rest of us can use the language we always have. Woman/Man.

It's like calling all stallions non-geldings because most male horses are gelded as stallions can be tricky to handle. So there are more geldings than there are stallions. But there's a word for each. By your logic all male horses would be known as geldings but stallions would be known as non-geldings. 🤷‍♀️

pop91 · 27/03/2022 19:30

@Campervan69

I find CIS to be offensive as although I am female, in no way do I identify with the sexist stereotypes associated with the female sex.

CIS is a neutral descriptor of anyone who isn't trans. It's like being offended by 'Straight' or 'White' or 'trans'. They are neutral descriptors that don't deny your identity as a biological woman because that's literally what it means.

So TIF or transgender identifying female is fine then as purely descriptive?

TIM or trans identifying male also fine. Neutral descriptors of biological reality.

*So TIF or transgender identifying female is fine then as purely descriptive?

TIM or trans identifying male also fine. Neutral descriptors of biological reality.*

If you're talking about sex sure but at that point, you can just say someone's sex without the 'trans identifying' And in most cases it's not relevant to know someone's sex, not talking about medicine, bathrooms, prisons or fucking, but working with or sitting opposite you just don't need to know someone's sex.

we already do a more polite version of this with FTM and MTF noting a partial medical sex change.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:30

"Meet the neuroscientist shattering the myth of the gendered brain
Why asking whether your brain is male or female is the wrong question"

"Plasticity is now a scientific given – the brain is moulded from birth onwards until old age"

“The idea of the male brain and the female brain suggests that each is a characteristically homogenous thing and that whoever has got a male brain, say, will have the same kind of aptitudes, preferences and personalities as everyone else with that ‘type’ of brain. We now know that is not the case. We are at the point where we need to say, ‘Forget the male and female brain; it’s a distraction, it’s inaccurate.’ It’s possibly harmful, too, because it’s used as a hook to say, well, there’s no point girls doing science because they haven’t got a science brain, or boys shouldn’t be emotional or should want to lead.”

WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:32

Plasticity is now a scientific given – the brain is moulded from birth onwards until old age

pop91 · 27/03/2022 19:32

Okay people if not Cis then we can we say you're 'not trans'
or is that offensive too?

OP posts:
mudgetastic · 27/03/2022 19:32

In most cases sex is irrelevant

But where it is relevant it would be better if we could just call transwomen men but some find that distressing so we don't

Are you saying we should just stop being kind and call a man a man , but use gender neutral pronouns for all in most circumstances ?

PrelateChuckles · 27/03/2022 19:33

What's wrong with "people who aren't trans"? Confused

pop91 · 27/03/2022 19:34

@WarriorN

Plasticity is now a scientific given – the brain is moulded from birth onwards until old age
I guess someone must have moulded my brain to be more male from birth then.
OP posts:
WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:34

No, did you hear when the greens called us "non men?"

Wtf is wrong with the word "women?!"

Except throughout history men have sought to control and undermine and abuse women.

Campervan69 · 27/03/2022 19:34

FTM or MTF isn't true though is it? As no-one can actually change sex.

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/03/2022 19:34

How would a brain be able to become more male? What would it be like to be more male?

PrelateChuckles · 27/03/2022 19:35

@PrelateChuckles

It's been illuminating, anyway OP. Your view of gender seems a bit removed from the current Stonewall et al thinking. For you it seems centred on the body - on being unhappy with how your body is and wanting to change it fairly drastically (height, sex, at least).

I assume - but please do correct me as I'm interested - you're not too convinced by 'self-id', wherein a man can look like Kim Kardashian and be just as much of a man as George Clooney errr Zayn Malik?

Or do you feel that body appearance is actually quite a big factor, and an invisible inner gender feeling isn't what you consider to be 'gender identity'?

OP, don't mind if you didn't want to get into this or if the thread was moving too fast, but wondered what your thoughts are on it.
WarriorN · 27/03/2022 19:35

I guess someone must have moulded my brain to be more male from birth then.

Pop, it's sexist bullshit.

Don't let history repeat itself.

Soontobe60 · 27/03/2022 19:35

Gender dysphoria isn’t a mismatch between what someone’s brain imagines and the reality of their body. What you’re trying to describe is that discredited claim that some people are ‘born in the wrong body’.
It’s having uncomfortable feelings about your sexed body. It increases for some children once puberty hits - but the overwhelming majority of boys and girls feel uncomfortable with their developing body to a greater or lesser degree. And of these, again the overwhelming majority become more comfortable as time goes on. Some don't. Some become anorexic, bulimic, even suicidal. Some become trans. Some turn out to be gay.

OldCrone · 27/03/2022 19:36

do you think gendered roles/expectations/stereotypes are harmful to women (and by extension, some men)?

Yes harmful to ALL people.

You're gender critical.

pop91 · 27/03/2022 19:36

@mudgetastic

In most cases sex is irrelevant

But where it is relevant it would be better if we could just call transwomen men but some find that distressing so we don't

Are you saying we should just stop being kind and call a man a man , but use gender neutral pronouns for all in most circumstances ?

No, I'm suggesting to use whatever someone tells you to use.

'Hi, I'm _ and my pronouns are he/him'

If you desperately can't or refuse to use he/him then just my name will do :)

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/03/2022 19:36

This thread is an awesome display of the infinite patience and tolerance of women - many mothers, many not.
Flowers to you all.