Great Ormond St conference deplatforms Helen Joyce & Stephanie Davies-Arai

[Helleofabore]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/19/great-ormond-street-cancels-trainee-doctor-conference-trans/

Also archived on archive is.

Great Ormond Street cancels trainee doctor conference over trans ‘safety’ complaints

Zoom conference descended into chaos as trans activists refused to appear alongside gender-critical speakers

@Helleofabore

JoanOgden

This is true to a certain extent. Except that restricting the speakers also restricts the opinions given and the wider scope. Shouldn’t that also be important?

Who from the NHS is going to feel free to stand and deliver some of the failures of the NHS and the implications. Dr Cass has not finished her report and probably cannot deliver such a strong message.

I'd certainly want Helen Joyce to speak at an event for a wider audience, but IIRC she doesn't come from a medical background (and neither do Mermaids, FFS). If this is an event for trainee doctors then I think it would be more effective to focus in detail on the medical/psychiatric implications for children, which as we all know are hideous.

I know Joan. And I do get it. But I also wondered whether clinicians within the NHS actually feel they can speak freely these days. So maybe the idea was having others outside the NHS system would be a better way.

And yes, it would be better to have actual clinicians speaking from around the world, but this was an in person conference and to graduates. So... would they have the budget to bring those across. Although David Bell was there, who other than the Evans's have put their head up to talk about it.

I cannot imagine many clinicians now wanting to speak freely about the failures in the current treatment plans at that conference knowing what has happened.

But I do understand where you are coming from Joan.

it was agreed between GOSH and Health Education England, the national NHS training body, to scrap the conference while a review is undertaken.

What an earth is the point of that? When the person who conducts the review could be cancelled just like Hilary Cass. Don't like what the review says? get the NHS to shut down the reviewer.

The NHS and HEE look utterly ridiculous.

If you don't bloody want to attend the conference, don't. If there are too many people preventing other people from speaking, have two conferences. You bloody children.

As for mermaids, I can't believe they're stupid enough to get the very woman who's reviewing their influence, cancelled when she goes public.

It almost feels as though they think they can't be stopped, whatever they do.

Interestingly though (particularly interesting for Joan), Helen Joyce has tweeted today that

In more promising news, I'm already hearing from child psychiatrists and trainees outside London that if (WHEN) the canceled @GreatOrmondSt event is rescheduled, they would love to be invited. It's a small minority within the profession who are captured

So this cancelling has started to bring out some replacement speakers who ARE qualified. Good news.

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1505505402414374914?s=20&t=UHvmDHOWM0McgXPiYoeNmQ

Yes - that is very good news!

The grown ups might not yet be back in the room, but at least they are waiting on the doorstep!
Great news.

How do adults intent on gaslighting children get so much power in contrast to women trying to safeguard them? It's such a mystery.

Yet it does seem promising if the organisers were willing to do it once, have a balanced panel, they must certainly be still willing if they can get other clinicians to speak now.

Sounds promising, indeed.

It will be opening Dr Cass's eyes. The TRAs can't say they are open to debate and they are right and then have these no platforming tantrums. The no platforming is always one way. The UK used to excel at debate and intellectual argument. As others said this is the only area of medicine where the evidence is not debated sensibly

Have to say, I imagine Dr Cass muttering "WTAF??" to herself on a regular basis during her drafting of the report. So much madness, and so contrary to long-standing medical ethics.

J K Rowling is tweeting again about this. Always picks her moment.

J K Rowling is tweeting again about this. Always picks her moment.

I was so happy to see the tone of the responses. It really does seem like something is shifting. Like people are just willing to tell the truth and stop doing the endless appeasement dance. I’m glad she’s boosting the detransitioners and their stories too. They deserve to be heard.

I think mermaids have made a big tactical error here. These are discussions that MUST be had. They would in every other branch of medicine where there is a lack of consensus. Not having these conversations endangers children. Organisations stifling these conversations are endangering children. The only people in this who are not safe are the children.

This conference has to go ahead, with or without Mermaids.

I very much hope that through Mayas tribunal and this we can come to an agreement on what is and is not transphobia, so we can talk openly about these challenging issues, without being shouted down as bigots and have people play the 'i dont feel safe' card, when they mean I dont like it when people disagree with me.

Look at this shit. The Whittington has one of the biggest maternity depts in north London. They also have specialisms in cancers that only affect women. I have had a lot of investigations there but I would honestly be nervous about going there for treatment after seeing this.

Women who believe in single sex spaces aren't welcome.

Mealy mouthed excusecising at the bottom there "Ooh, we didn't know that was a nasty word"

@SamphiretheStickerist

Mealy mouthed excusecising at the bottom there "Ooh, we didn't know that was a nasty word"

I know. Such a load of crap.

This is what happens when you let a youngster with too much time spent on Tumblr run your SM account. A hospital tweeting "TERFS do not interact" to its patient base.

Well that's one way to cut down on waiting lists in women's health.

Imagine having treatment at the Whittington and knowing that woman hating language and views are acceptable and common amongst staff.
Frightening.

Does the Equality Act apply to hospitals?

If they are public bodies wouldn't tweeting something like that put them in breach of their equality duty towards people with protected beliefs?

I guess maybe not because then all the hospitals denying same sex HCPs are also in breach of that duty? Are hospitals not public bodies then?

I presume the Equality Act applies to the NHS allmywhat ? What is apparent is that the NHS appears to have a casual relationship with the concept of safeguarding patients - especially women and children.

Its not a conference, is it? And not the direct responsibility of GOSH or the NHS. Its part of a training day for child psychiatrists, hosted at GOSH, which is part of UCL trust. Which has descended into chaos due to refusals by some parties to be present at the same training as other parties. And from my experience of similar training days, these are not things organised at a high level within the organisation.

As the goal is training child psychiatrists, it seems sensible for them to do as they have suggested which is to pause the day, get senior people in to review the situation, and to organise the training later on on their training cycle. If some groups don't want to be involved then that's their look out.

I presume the Equality Act applies to the NHS allmywhat ?

I guess no one is going to take action against them for that Tweet alone, but if anyone attending the hospital felt discriminated against for GC beliefs it would be very useful evidence.

Aside - if the Equality Act applies to hospitals as service providers, is anyone taking action against the NHS trusts which have a policy of assigning "same-gender" HCPs even when the patient requests a same-sex HCP? It seems like clear discrimination on the grounds of belief (anyone who disbelieves that gender identity >sex.)

What's apparent is that women and children are going to have to use the courts to ensure safeguarding. Sadly that means that it will be the children gaslit into transitioning by their schools (without parental consent) who will need to sue the school. The 25 pluses suing the NHS when they finally understand that giving up your fertility and facing a life with a body that is no longer your own and dependent on medication / surgery is not an acceptable way of living. And worse.

So much harm being done and until it's all evidenced and quantified via damages, this will continue.

That thread from the Whittington Clymene has posted is shocking.

Staff member responsible didn’t know how offensive some people find this term?! Of course, silly us: how can someone whose literal job it is to manage social media engagement know that a term basically used exclusively as a slur* (frequently accompanying threats of violence, just as an added bonus) across socials might be found offensive?

The Whittington is in Islington, which is the 53rd most deprived of England’s 317 local authorities - not an area for luxury beliefs. About 13% of the population are Muslim (so almost 3 x higher than the population level of 4.4%) - lots of them will be unable to access healthcare in a mixed-sex setting.

Maybe the Whittington could keep focused on the very real & substantial issue of health inequality in the Borough. And indeed on the needs of their patients, rather than on validating their staff.

• reclamation attempts are negligible, but crucially, it is still understood as a slur when self-applied