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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Great Ormond St conference deplatforms Helen Joyce & Stephanie Davies-Arai

100 replies

Helleofabore · 19/03/2022 17:27

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/19/great-ormond-street-cancels-trainee-doctor-conference-trans/

Also archived on archive is.

Great Ormond Street cancels trainee doctor conference over trans ‘safety’ complaints

Zoom conference descended into chaos as trans activists refused to appear alongside gender-critical speakers

OP posts:
SamphiretheStickerist · 19/03/2022 18:18

Given the Cass report if GOSH decided to be brave in hindsight, this could possibly be a great own goal

Mochudubh · 19/03/2022 18:47

How the hell would it make Zoom attendees feel "unsafe" FFS?

Whitefire · 19/03/2022 19:00

They know that their days are numbered, and that they would be totally outwitted in a debate. I know that was always the case but the Cass interim report leaves them with nothing.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/03/2022 19:03

This of course is what Mermaids etc are trying to silence - any discussions of the interim report from the Cass review:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4501337-The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report
And Transgender Trend have just published this damning indictment of the dangers of socially transitioning little children:
www.transgendertrend.com/childhood-social-transition/

Adults weaponising children in their adult issues are desperate to keep things like this from being discussed.

MoltenLasagne · 19/03/2022 19:10

pseudo-medical platforms

A bit rich coming from Susie Green who only has qualifications in IT and still managed to oversee a shocking data leak...

SantaCarlaCalifornia · 19/03/2022 19:26

How have people got to be so damn weak?

InTheResistance · 19/03/2022 19:45

As taxpayers who are presumably funding this, is there a way we can complain? The processes are always so obscure in the NHS, all i usually get is "that's not our department"... but until we create as much tedious admin for them as the TRAs do they will always get their way

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/03/2022 19:48

This is astonishing.

HEE (Health Education England partners with NHS England to ensure that "the right people with the right skills are in the right place at the right time") has a Patients Advisory Forum (iirc, that's about to change to People or Public Advisory Forum) which is supposed to advise them on areas like this.

I'd be surprised if they had supported the idea of no debate on this matter because that's not really supporting patients or the public. How can ignoring the Cass Review work for anyone?

www.hee.nhs.uk/

Don't they have any representatives with backbone or any knowledge of how to have a dialogue?

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 19/03/2022 19:58

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

This is astonishing.

HEE (Health Education England partners with NHS England to ensure that "the right people with the right skills are in the right place at the right time") has a Patients Advisory Forum (iirc, that's about to change to People or Public Advisory Forum) which is supposed to advise them on areas like this.

I'd be surprised if they had supported the idea of no debate on this matter because that's not really supporting patients or the public. How can ignoring the Cass Review work for anyone?

www.hee.nhs.uk/

Don't they have any representatives with backbone or any knowledge of how to have a dialogue?

The HEE that is a stonewall gold champion you mean? www.hee.nhs.uk/news-blogs-events/news/health-education-england-recognised-stonewall-lgbtq-inclusion-workplace
pombear · 19/03/2022 20:01

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus It depends on who's on the Patient Advisory Board.

I do think, given the current issue with both this and single-sex wards and healthcare provision, there's a case for women to mobilise and sign up to be part of lots of patient panels and forums - there are opportunities at lots of levels, GP practice patient involvement groups, Clinical Commissioning Group patient groups, Primary Care Networks, hospital patient groups, Integrated Care Systems (ICSs) and national groups.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/03/2022 20:06

@pombear

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus It depends on who's on the Patient Advisory Board.

I do think, given the current issue with both this and single-sex wards and healthcare provision, there's a case for women to mobilise and sign up to be part of lots of patient panels and forums - there are opportunities at lots of levels, GP practice patient involvement groups, Clinical Commissioning Group patient groups, Primary Care Networks, hospital patient groups, Integrated Care Systems (ICSs) and national groups.

That sounds like a very good and important idea.
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/03/2022 20:08

The HEE that is a stonewall gold champion you mean?

I was referring to the Advisory Forum who aren't employees of HEE: they're patients and/or representatives of the public. Or, do you think that they would only appoint people who are Stonewalled?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/03/2022 20:27

Before Susie Green started running Mermaids, she worked for the CAB as an IT manager. She has no professional or educational qualifications in this area at all, to my knowledge. Entirely self-taught, and absolutely determined to justify the choices she made for her own child and enable - some would say push - other parents to do the same. She does this on the basis of extremely questionable assertions that if children can't transition they will harm themselves, plus of course the entirely unevidenced view that gender identity is innate and sometimes the body needs medical treatment to match the brain. They no longer say 'born in the wrong body', but they did, for many, many years.

When her eldest child was very young, she and her then husband were taken aback at the child's fondness for 'girl' toys and clothing. They appear to have made an absolute pig's ear of handling this. Instead of accepting their child's personality and preferences and recognising and working on their own sexist attitudes and prejudices, they took at face value the poor kid's statements that God had made a mistake and the child should have been a girl.

SG threw herself into the task of ensuring Jackie would be one of the youngest UK nationals ever to have hormone therapy and sexual reassignment surgery. She took J to the US to get puberty blockers and cross-hormones when J was 12yo. The NHS wouldn't have gone near that at the time (15-16 years ago now, I suppose). She took J to Thailand for surgery, which was carried out on J's 16th birthday, the earliest time it could happen legally at the time. Thailand has since raised the minimum age to 18.

At this time, Mermaids was a tiny obscure charity set up to support the parents of gender questioning children. They used to accept the NHS line that watchful waiting was the way to go, given that most gender questioning children accept their sex as they go through puberty. SG has been the main driver in moving it away from that and putting pressure on GIDS at the Tavistock to go for instant affirmation and hormone treatment, as young as possible.

In my view, she has a good deal to answer for, and I'm not surprised she doesn't want to debate with Transgender Trend. The house of cards might all come toppling down and then where would she be?

Here's her TED talk, setting a lot of this out. www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story?language=en

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 19/03/2022 20:31

I don’t know Embarrassing but if they’re stonewall champions I assume one of the things that gets looked at & marked is recruitment. I’ve no doubt stonewall provide suggested questions for recruitment so it wouldn’t surprise me :/

DomesticatedZombie · 19/03/2022 20:41

Given that the Cass Review's interim report seemed to support everything that Arai and Joyce have asserted it seems a little surprising that Mermaids etc would take this tack.

WordleGirdle · 19/03/2022 20:53

This 'unsafe via Zoom' thing - is it the literal extension of Peter Pan, where if children say you don't believe in fairies, they die? Do they literally need people clapping to keep them alive?

Helleofabore · 19/03/2022 20:53

It smacks of desperation zombie.

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 19/03/2022 21:06

My very short post was deleted and I'm not entirely sure why.

Perhaps it was that I pointed out that SG has IT qualifications, not medical ones. Or perhaps it is that I pointed out that despite IT qualifications there was a massive data leak at Mermaids.

Toseland · 19/03/2022 21:15

Wow, just unbelievable - that quote from Mermaids! Of course they are unsafe, I should think those two ladies talking sense would be terrifying and show them right up.

Mollyollydolly · 19/03/2022 21:31

I've only just realised that Dr Hilary Cass was due to speak. I'm sure she's delighted that Mermaids and their fans have led to this event being cancelled.
I look forward to her final report.
Amazing that Mermaids have gained so much influence when they are such idiots.
I mean I can understand why they'd go for Helen and Stephanie, but Doctor Hilary Cass?
The optics are terrible.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 19/03/2022 21:34

Mollys post makes me wonder if actually they were far more worried about what Dr Cass had to say but it would be very difficult to hurl accusations about transphobia at her or take to one’s fainting couch because she was speaking

Far easier to attack helen & Stephanie Abd claim it’s them that makes them feel “unsafe”

Mollyollydolly · 19/03/2022 21:51

Yes this is the screen grab that Conservatives for Women tweeted detailing some of the speakers.

Great Ormond St conference deplatforms Helen Joyce &  Stephanie Davies-Arai
EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 19/03/2022 21:51

I've only just realised that Dr Hilary Cass was due to speak.

How can anyone pass up an opportunity to learn from Dr Hilary Cass with her remarkable record of achievements?

This doesn't look good. I'm so sorry that future leaders in this field have reacted this way. I suppose that the ones who don't agree with the complaints weren't aware that a small # of people were capable of cancelling the event for everyone on such grounds.

Mollyollydolly · 19/03/2022 22:11

Stephanie has just tweeted about it too. Calling for respectable debate.
twitter.com/cwknews/status/1505304186161926148

Mollyollydolly · 19/03/2022 22:13

Respectful!