I opened the can...

[AsTreesWalking]

...worms exited.
Yesterday morning I shared a quiz with some students. There was a question that quoted thus: 'I'm not going down that rabbit hole', and, 'it depends on the context' - what was it that these MPs would not define? My students could not think what it could be. So I told them 'A Woman'. They were most surprised. Then they realised and did a spectacular volte face. I pointed out their cognitive dissonance. I told them why I have a problem with self id, and about rapes in prisons.
They went to another member of staff, and today I was summoned to a member of SLT and told that they had said I was transphobic, and had upset them.
I have had to type up 'my version' of the conversation. How I wish I'd just skipped that question! I'm now afraid that my form will all decide that I am a dreadful person.
Why does wrong think on this topic trump all other evidence of a person's good will?
I refuse to lie to my students. I stand by what i said, It was all true. But I'm feeling afraid, and still shaking.

Tell them they are being like Putin.

This pandering to lying has to stop.

How would you feel if a NeoNazi teacher went rogue and filled kids heads with extremist propaganda.

Christ, you are just embarrassing yourself. At worst OP spoke in favour of a position which is the law as it currently stands- hardly comparable to Naziism.

Tell them they are being like Putin.

Are we saying the kids have invaded Ukraine or the school?

This thread has gotten a little hyperbolic.

Which is what it sounds like you've done

It's nothing like what she's done. This isn't analogous to thinking being gay is unnatural.

Concerning the OP, I’m a bit mystified as to how this seemingly “gotcha” question appeared on the quiz. I find it impossible to believe that this question could be asked without the intended outcome of a very pointed discussion about biological sex.

Lots of schools do quizzes in PSHE or tutor about what's been in the news. Yes one of the points of this is to encourage discussion. It's literally a form tutor's job.

“SunbowRainshine31

There must be strict rules as to what can be taught to children.

Extreme political positions are not a good idea, especially those that already go against equality legislation on the books.

How would you feel if a NeoNazi teacher went rogue and filled kids heads with extremist propaganda.

Have you considered another career?“

Since when has being able to say what a woman is an “Extreme political position”?

And I would say it is only under some sort of very malign regime that you may not say what a woman is.

“Christmas1988

You have to keep your opinions to yourself and be as neutral as possible. Your job is to teach not brainwash, open and non bias thinking only in the classroom. It’s up to students to make their own minds up.“

So are you saying a lesson should go something like this:

Some people think the earth is flat because it certainly looks that way. Some people think it is round because when they start at one point and keep going they don’t come to an edge but back where they started. What do you think?

Some people think that men and women are born because that is how it has always appeared on the basis of their physical differences. Other people think that there is no such thing as a man or a woman based on physical differences, it depends on what they feel they are and you can change your physical differences. What do you think?

I was also wondering what you would say if a student asked, “Is it true you can change your sex?” Would the truthful answer ,”No one can actually change their sex” be political and impartial?

I'd tell them to ask their Biology teacher.

I've looked at the government guidance, and I've decided I really need guidance to interpret the guidance. But it seems to me that while TWAW vs adult human female is not inherently a political issue, Self ID most definitely is, and ticks all the boxes in the guidance. I would have left that out of anything I said which started with "I believe..." in the classroom. You don't have to nail your own colours to the mast to challenge your students.

I'm assuming your school doesn't promote self ID (of course it doesn't. To do so would explicitly be taking a political stand, which schools never do).

Impartiality is not nearly as straight forward as some people seem to think. As teachers, we're expected to actively teach the kids about British values, which is fairly political. We are wholeheartedly encouraged to take a pro-Ukraine stance (although this doesn't quite go so far as an "anti-Russia" stance). My school even has a chaplain, who actively teaches the kids every morning about God and Jesus as though it's fact.

I obviously see that it's completely inappropriate for a teacher to "preach" to a class that TWANW (or that TWAW for that matter). But to present your opinion on a moral issue is not automatically forbidden. Yes, of course it's safer to preface it with "some people believe....", or "how do you feel about this recent case?" etc etc.

Really interesting responses here. If the OP had told her students she thinks everyone has the right to self ID no matter the situation (prisons, hospitals etc) many of you who said "well done OP" etc would be up in arms. We cannot have a situation in schools where teachers can promote certain view points. Just because you align yourself with that viewpoint doesn't mean the OP was right to share her view. It's a slippery slope - you cannot have certain topics like this where it's acceptable to share opinions as where do you draw the line. It's frustrating that many on this thread refuse to see beyond the topic being discussed.

I said I agreed with you but the point many are making is that lots of schools do share a one sided view of the opposite position to OP. Why do you think Stonewall etc gets to go into schools?

@Cottonfrenzie

Really interesting responses here. If the OP had told her students she thinks everyone has the right to self ID no matter the situation (prisons, hospitals etc) many of you who said "well done OP" etc would be up in arms. We cannot have a situation in schools where teachers can promote certain view points. Just because you align yourself with that viewpoint doesn't mean the OP was right to share her view. It's a slippery slope - you cannot have certain topics like this where it's acceptable to share opinions as where do you draw the line. It's frustrating that many on this thread refuse to see beyond the topic being discussed.

I don't think biology is about "belief" though. And I would prefer my child's teachers to teach them facts. I also want equality for women. And I would like teachers to support this. That any if the above is in question right now, is utterly ridiculous and downright dangerous. I will applaud any teacher who is brave enough to stand up to this sinister state of affairs we have arrived at.

I really can't sympathise enough with teachers being put in this position. Thank you again OP 🙏

I don’t think the OP was posting because she thinks what she’s done adheres to the letter of teaching law. She’s posting for support and guidance. I don’t have experience of teaching so I’ve given some support.

Moreover I remember my school days and the teachers who stick in my mind and influenced me positively were the ones who challenged my thinking. Kids have been gaslit and brainwashed in Stonewalled schools and by media to the point where they are reporting their teachers for ‘transphobia’ when they are discussing the rights and safety of women who ARE being raped/assaulted/filmed in prisons and hospitals, toilets and changing rooms. They can’t have a conversation about JK Rowling without all reverting to Rightspeak. They are signing their rights and identity away without thought and the ones who don’t agree are scared to speak up. So sorry if I don’t queue up to berate OP for some pretty mild mannered factual discussion of the realities of self ID for women. That is not something that frightens me, the ongoing conditioning of our children and teenagers around gender ideology does.

Direct quote from the CEO of Stonewall (her interview with Woman's Hour of 18 Nov 2021):

So, gender critical beliefs […] have always been protected under the Equality Act and it’s absolutely possible for people to hold gender critical beliefs without expressing them in a way that’s harmful to trans people.

And she didn't think JK Rowling is transphobic (to be clear, she didn't say she wasn't transphobic, she just said "no idea").

I would have done the same but then I am an ex biology teacher. It’s facts not beliefs. What was that Galileo phrase? ..and yet it moves?

Pupils hear stuff they ‘don’t believe in’ all the time in assemblies, especially about God.

Joel Snape on Twitter has some of the Maya trial in cartoon form that puts it into a form that may encourage more critical thinking from pupils. You are doing a mini-Maya. You need a Ben Cooper!

If it makes you feel better, some of my children are finishing university and now they have more experience of life are very much on the same page. So are their friends. It’s a real surprise to them though as when they tentatively mention it, as it’s the one subject nobody dare mention, everyone feels relief as they have been going mad with the cognitive dissonance on their own.

At the end of the day the person shouldn’t have set the question if they didn’t want discussion. You were offering the other viewpoint that pupils dare not discuss.

@anadulthumanfemale

Yeah...not surprised you got in trouble for this.

Quotes from gov page on impartiality in the classroom that show why:

"The law states that teachers must not promote partisan political views and should offer a balanced overview of opposing views when political issues are taught."

"What they shouldn’t do, though, is present their own, or anyone else’s, political views as fact."

"As a general principle, they should avoid expressing their own personal political views to pupils unless they are confident this will not amount to promoting that view to pupils."

And this is how Stonewall has managed to subvert so many organisations.

Facts when expressed become personal opinions, political views and so teacher's can be reprimanded.

Think that through. Stating the facts that human beings cannot change sex and that allowing anyone to say they are a woman and so enter any and all single sex female spaces can be, and has been problematic for some women becomes a stackable offence

Is that really something you think is justified?

Worrisome if you do as it also means that a lot of safeguarding is instantly removed.and young women, girls are shown quite clearly that their boundaries, bodily autonomy are if no consequence.

“dapsnotplimsolls

I'd tell them to ask their Biology teacher.”

I think I’d do that too! But, if the biology teacher were to say no one can actually change their sex no matter what hormones or operations they have, would that be considered political and impartial?

@ScrollingLeaves

“dapsnotplimsolls

I'd tell them to ask their Biology teacher.”

I think I’d do that too! But, if the biology teacher were to say no one can actually change their sex no matter what hormones or operations they have, would that be considered political and impartial?

The safest option would be for the Biology teacher to quote directly from a Biology textbook. I haven't yet been asked by a pupil what I think a woman is but if I am, I'll simply grab a dictionary and read out the definition.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I said I agreed with you but the point many are making is that lots of schools do share a one sided view of the opposite position to OP. Why do you think Stonewall etc gets to go into schools?

I think many schools are moving away from stonewall from what I've read. From my experience in four different schools I've never seen stonewall in school/any of their resources etc used.

don't think biology is about "belief" though. And I would prefer my child's teachers to teach them facts.
I also want equality for women. And I would like teachers to support this.
That any if the above is in question right now, is utterly ridiculous and downright dangerous.
I will applaud any teacher who is brave enough to stand up to this sinister state of affairs we have arrived at.

It is her opinion that "self ID is dangerous" (I think that's the phrase she used). I of course know there are instances of this causing a danger to women (the hospital incident is appalling), however, I could also find facts/evidence to support the idea that self ID is positive for individuals should I want to. Presenting both sides is fine. Telling students your views is not.

I'm leaving this thread now as it's taking up too much time repeating myself. I've explained countless times that as teachers we need to present all arguments and encourage students to think these through for themselves and reach their own conclusions.

Many feel so passionate about their views that they think it's acceptable for a teacher to share her view with students. I'm afraid it isn't - as a teacher your position makes you influential. By presenting your opinion you are influencing thinking whether it your intention or not. The FACTS are whether you agree or not self ID is contentious, therefore giving an opinion (either way) is inappropriate. Im telling posters this is actually a requirement of teachers to not share opinion - but it seems many don't want to hear that as they agree with the opinion. It sets a dangerous precedent for staff to be able to share opinion on topics such as this as where do you draw the line. And be honest, if the OP shared the opposite view many of you would be appalled. As a parent I really do not want teachers giving their opinions to my child. I want them to present a wide range of facts and to encourage my child to think critically for themselves.

Anyway, as I said I'm leaving it now as I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

OP I hope it's easily resolved for you next week. I would not give my personal opinion again though.

“dapsnotplimsolls

ScrollingLeaves
“dapsnotplimsolls

I'd tell them to ask their Biology teacher.”

I think I’d do that too! But, if the biology teacher were to say no one can actually change their sex no matter what hormones or operations they have, would that be considered political and impartial?
The safest option would be for the Biology teacher to quote directly from a Biology textbook. I haven't yet been asked by a pupil what I think a woman is but if I am, I'll simply grab a dictionary and read out the definition.”

Thanks @dapsnotplimsolls

@Cottonfrenzie
The FACTS are whether you agree or not self ID is contentious,

Agreement of disagreement isn’t a FACT though exactly.

Whereas saying Self -ID could lead to a person with a male body (however femininely presented) being in a space where there are female bodies is a fact.