Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

This was also the highest number of murdered (375) trans women .
And yet I don't hear anything on the news or in the house of lords.

Why do you think the HoL should be discussing the murders of Brazilian transsexual prostitutes?

Trans woman are males with a certain type of invisible, indefinable feeling.

Predatory males are males with a different type of invisible feeling.

Trans women are anyone who says they are a trans woman.
Predatory males might even... lie. They might not want to declare that they are predatory males, for obvious reasons.

Please go ahead, tristine, and write a policy for how to tell the difference.

Oh Lord this does get tedious doesn’t it.

Tristine

We're talking about laws and services and provision in this country. Not sex workers in places like Brazil.

In this country there are more transwomen murderers than have been murdered. Transwomen being murdered in this country is exceptionally rare thankfully. As opposed to between two and three women a week. Every year Karen Ingala Smith reads out the names of women who have been killed, in parliament. She was told off for not including transwomen, and she said she couldn't, because they weren't any.

No transwoman has been killed in this country where them being trans was the reason. Transphobic killings haven't happened.

But in terms of sex offending, at least half of transwomen in prison are there for sex offences.

You're not talking about an oppressed group. Quite the opposite.

Transwomen are a subset of men, not women. They have the same offending patterns, and can't be subjected to misogyny, because misogyny uniquely affects women.

This was also the highest number of murdered (375) trans women .
And yet I don't hear anything on the news or in the house of lords.

I'm very sorry if you're posting from Brazil/Central or South America and you're personally affected by this.

Forbes:
The majority of the murders happened in Central and South America (70%). But like last few years, the most deaths in a single country occurred in Brazil, totalling 33% of global deaths.

I would say to you that you shouldn't be mislead by this.

Meanwhile, a global recession in trans rights continues, with countries from Hungary, Poland and even the U.K. seeing rising transphobia, anti-LGBTQ policies and rhetoric. In the U.K., transphobic hate crime reports have quadrupled over the last six years.

You will have seen that in the UK the hate crime reports can involve tweets that assert biology. The UK has much better legislation to protect certain characteristics (including gender reassignment) than other countries who don't even begin to have anything approaching equality of marriage/employment/housing/pensions/healthcare etc. (and that includes the US).

You may be very encouraged to learn that, in the UK, transwomen are safer than the general population according to homicide statistics.

@Nnique

Oh Lord this does get tedious doesn’t it.

Aye

Forbes: 375 Transgender People Murdered In 2021-'Deadliest Year' Since Records Began.

Why is this relevant to U.K. hospital wards?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Forbes: 375 Transgender People Murdered In 2021-'Deadliest Year' Since Records Began.

Why is this relevant to U.K. hospital wards?

I think it's along the lines that sex workers get targeted in Brazil, so we need to abandon safeguarding.

Or some such logic.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Forbes: 375 Transgender People Murdered In 2021-'Deadliest Year' Since Records Began.

Why is this relevant to U.K. hospital wards?

I apologise. I confused the thread this was on.

I agree that it isn't and I shouldn't have responded to that enquiry even if I was attempting to reassure the poster who seemed to have been mislead by journalist's interpretation of a report.

However, I should have finished my comment by saying that UK crime statistics give no reason to think that transwomen aren't so much safer than the general population in hospital settings as they are elsewhere.

even the U.K. seeing rising transphobia, anti-LGBTQ policies and rhetoric. In the U.K., transphobic hate crime reports have quadrupled over the last six years

I would like to see evidence that this “rise in transphobia” is an actual increase in crime.

And not an increase in the reporting and recording of those crimes- specifically hate crimes.

I suspect that 6 years ago these crimes were recorded as assault, rape, sexual assault etc, and “hate crime” would be 0, simply because it was not recorded as such.

Now Police forces are obligated to record the motivation for a hate crime, so unsurprisingly the increase is rapidly rising in the statistics.

I would also like to point out that sex is not included as a hate crime. So if you attack a woman because she is female, that is not a hate crime.

Therefore in the statistics there is no hate crime against women.

Meanwhile, a global recession in trans rights continues, with countries from Hungary, Poland and even the U.K. seeing rising transphobia, anti-LGBTQ policies and rhetoric.

Another sneaky bit of hiding behind lesbians and gay men, when they don't even believe in homosexuality.

In the sane year this event happend 2021.
This was also the highest number of murdered (375) trans women.
And yet I don't hear anything on the news or in the house of lords.
This isn't including assaulted beaten raped humiliated etc
So at what point do we begin to recognise trans women are facing the very exact same issues from misogyny as all of us

This is where your anger needs to be placed.
You conflate trans woman with predatory men ...the very type they have most to fear from.

So much to unpick here.

This was also the highest number of murdered (375) trans women.
And yet I don't hear anything on the news or in the house of lords.

There were NO murders of transitioned males in 2021 in the UK. Why would there be a need to bring that up in the House of Lords? The UK seems to be one of the safest places in the world to be a trans person. Yet, this statistic is always brought up as a way to silence women discussing single sex spaces. And it is a classic 'what aboutery' tactic.

So at what point do we begin to recognise trans women are facing the very exact same issues from misogyny as all of us

It is YOU who is conflating things here. Not us.

Yes. Transitioned males face similar abuses as females but they are not the same. And your point also lacks the credibility that transitioned males are still on average stronger, faster and more powerful than the average female.

This is where your anger needs to be placed.

Our 'anger' is NOT yours to direct and your arrogance is rather astounding.

You conflate trans woman with predatory men ...the very type they have most to fear from.

Please back this up with evidence. Maybe there is a brand new study out that shows this. Please do link it up.

No study? Then please provide evidence that in the UK a transitioned male is less likely to commit sex crimes than the general male population.

And then, please post the way women can tell immediately which male is going to abuse, assault, rape, murder them and which ones are not.

Are you proposing that NO transitioned males are predatory? What are you statistics showing this?

Because we can show you the current statistics of transitioned males currently in UK prisons? Would you like to see them because they have been hand compiled through some very hard work by women's rights activists.

And finally. It is NOT up to any woman to fight for males to have access to those rights and protections for females. Nor is it our responsibility to fight for trans rights. Yet, women have been dragged into this because decades ago someone thought it was appropriate for transitioned males to have women's rights. When what they needed were rights that suited their own unique needs that did not conflict with the rights and protections for females.

There were, however, a lot of women murdered in the UK. Really, a lot.

I think the terminology only serves to distract. Let people call themselves whatever they want. It’s the having of the penis that is the factor here - it’s a nice easy to define thing and it stops genus it’s tying themselves in knots about CAIS etc.

I think we should separate changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards etc by the criteria:

“people with a penis >puberty”

“people without a penis and people with a penis

Re: Trans people killed
According to this fact check by Channel 4
www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk

“The latest Transrespect report says there were 369 “reported murders of trans and gender-diverse people between 1 October 2017 and 30 September 2018” around the world.

Nearly half of those (167) took place in Brazil, and a further 28 were recorded in the United States.

According to these figures, there was one trans person murdered in the UK in that time, and a total of nine trans people were murdered in the UK between 2008 and 2017. That’s an average rate of one victim per year.

A back-of-envelope calculation based on this data would suggest that the average trans person has a one-in-200,000 to one-in-500,000 chance of being murdered in the UK over the course of a year.“

Although I am always unsure if the plural is peni or penesis

Bit crap of Tristine to urge that 'work needs to be done' but won't get that started by telling us how you can make the crucial differentiation between men and TW that they agree needs to be made.

We've been saying for years that this would help immeasurably, yet the person that comes on here saying it needs to be done, won't!

Re stats of trans people - I have no idea how anyone can know if someone else is trans or not - surely it involves a lot of assuming someone's internal gender identity?

In hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centres etc etc the criterion should indeed be penis or no penis. In sport it should be history of male puberty or no history of male puberty.

I mean if we want to discuss the mortality rate of south American sex workers then its probably easier to start another thread about it.

This thread is about how policies have been snuck in through the back door and abuses that we predicted to happen have been happening with the full support of the authorities who are supposed to prevent these abuses.

Male people do not experience misogyny, the clue is in the word. The experience a form of toxic masculinity and its not the responsibility of women to be the collateral damage because men can't get their shit together.

This is a man problem, they need to sort it out. I am fucking sick and tired or it and of the people who try to excuse or deflect it.

Re woman (females)killed in the U.K.
from:

www.femicidecensus.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Femicide-Census-10-year-report.pdf

Dedication
This report is dedicated to the 1,4251 women killed by men in the UK from 2009-2018, to those killed in previous and subsequent years, and to their grieving families and friends. We wish never to lose sight of the women behind the figures in this report, and to honour their lives. Every effort has been made to use victims’ preferred names with the correct spelling. However, media and official reports sometimes used alternative names and alternative spellings, so we apologise if the name or spelling used is not the preferred or correct version.

Webster dictionary says plural is penises or penes!

@theDudesmummy

In hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centres etc etc the criterion should indeed be penis or no penis. In sport it should be history of male puberty or no history of male puberty.

Do you think there might be an unintended consequence there of encouraging males to damage themselves with puberty blockers? Or perhaps unscrupulous sports coaches/bodies encouraging it like East Germans did with doping.

In hospital wards, toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centres etc etc the criterion should indeed be penis or no penis. In sport it should be history of male puberty or no history of male puberty.

Agree - although I would avoid the term male. “Post pubertal People who have gone through puberty due to hormones produced by testicles” and “post pubertal people who have not gone through puberty based on hormones produced by testicles”

I did think of that when I wrote that comment, that is a danger and would need to be accounted for somehow, as for other types of doping. But as it is the male puberty that gives the advantage, that should be the focus of regulation, not other criteria (including, obviously, what gender you identify as, which is not relevant in the context).

OK, yes, whatever you call it, focusing on the actual physical reality that is the difference between men and women in the context of physical activities such as sport, is for me the way to go.