Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

I think its just an inflammatory article to gain indignation from the anti trans women's groups to delay any advancement in legislation

Can you tell me why fighting for sex based rights is antitrans? Is it antimen too?

How many times would it need to be said TRANS RIGHTS ARE NOT WOMENS RIGHTS
Women have the right to safe spaces.

@Icenii

I think its just an inflammatory article to gain indignation from the anti trans women's groups to delay any advancement in legislation

Can you tell me why fighting for sex based rights is antitrans? Is it antimen too?

It’s not unusual for men to make the assumption that being pro woman is anti men eg false stereotype of man hating feminists etc.

This is no different. Some males don’t like being told no. They get angry. They are wrong.

The difference is men couldn’t say they were more oppressed/most vulnerable/suffered more discrimination before.

@Tristine

When I've read over this article and words from the Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne ... Its plainly set out to be deliberately horrifying alarmist and devised to bring outrage. But anyone with any brains can see there's so many improbables . There's absence of details. For example cctv footage available and yet hospital staff suggest it never happened to police. I think its just an inflammatory article to gain indignation from the anti trans women's groups to delay any advancement in legislation. I think you all know that in your hearts but it works for your cause so you're going to bang your drums about it . Its predictable and as dull as that last rediculous bbc article about lesbians fear of being called turfs if they didn't consent to being with trans lesbians. You complain about the LGBTQ community but you're no better ! In your opinion it seems all trans women should be going into male only spaces and by the very same logic, trans men will be coming into your wards and toilets ?

A question for you #tristine

How many rapes and sexual assaults of vulnerable women would you find an acceptable number to start thinking that yes male people should be in male only spaces and female people should be in female on spaces?

Oh and another one. When you get to a position of defending rapists and denying victim's experience, how does that make you feel? What do you gain? What more are you willing in accept?

What sort of person reads about this and instead of immediately feeling absolute horror at what that poor women was unnecessarily put through, decides not to believe it because a Transwoman couldn't possibly be a rapist and it's all an agenda. Sickening behaviour.

Yes quite. People who have a very important part of their soul missing.

@DialSquare

What sort of person reads about this and instead of immediately feeling absolute horror at what that poor women was unnecessarily put through, decides not to believe it because a Transwoman couldn't possibly be a rapist and it's all an agenda. Sickening behaviour.

It's because TRAs are infected MRAs and MRAs believe the worst thing about rape is how it makes men feel and that women lie about rape all the time.

If TRAs don't want to be associated with MRAs then they need to stop behaving like MRAs.

As I said earlier this case is appalling and demonstrates how the hospital policy and procedure has been hijacked - the poor poor woman who suffered and then was totally ignored. The constant allegations of phobic behaviour when anyone raises a problem/event is bullying and I hope is having the reverse effect on the pubic. I think more people are waking up and realising that our society is being manipulated and what is worse young people are being persuaded that there are not just male and female.

MRAs believe the worst thing about rape is how it makes men feel and that women lie about rape all the time.

I think you're right TheWeeDonkey. This sentence shows it up for what it really is.

Not being a peer of the realm myself, I have no idea if it's normal for their lordships to be briefed to go 'blah blah blah', but I think that could be the point at which I'd seriously doubt the credentials of any organisation to give briefings. And I really hope I wouldn't follow their pathetic advice, no matter what was being debated.

Infected = infact 🤦

@PierresPotato

Did I miss this on the national news?

Professor Robert Winston said that if you ever want to keep something secret, your best option is to announce it in the House of Lords. When did a HoL debate last make the national news?

@DdraigGoch that's interesting. I must try to find where he said that.

Yes it does feel as though this news is being hidden as a google search yesterday only showed three news outlets running with it so far am glad that the Times has picked it up.

I think the reason why the story is not being so widely reported is due to the pressure by some of these groups. On LBC yesterday the story was covered in the afternoon 3-4 and the presenter even said words to the effect that he might have to hide/run afterwards. The debate has been stifled - we are all entitled to our views but increasingly people are frightened to speak out as this particular pressure group are so bullying

This is just awful, that poor woman. I am horrified at what is happening in plain sight. Have to hope that the majority of people perhaps aren't aware, but would also be horrified if they realised, and prepared to put their heads above the parapet to shout about how wrong it is!

Thing is, the newspapers that do share such stories are painted as right wing transphobes.

You don't have to look hard to find the evidence that the political lobby steering this has trained that sharing 'negative messaging' by repeating facts etc that cause others to give consideration of whether unconditional prioritising of male people's gender based choices over female people's rights is 'transphobic' in itself.

This has had impact directly on MNetters where meetings where women talked to Refuge management staff about how severely they were impacted by male people in the refuges not only included the staff openly Not Caring when many of the women from these refuges were in tears, but the management later publicly stating that no women had ever told them it was a problem for them.

The political strategy of just pretending that inconvenient facts and other people's needs don't exist is not a bug, it is absolute mainframe, and this is what must be confronted. This political lobby are absolutely reliant on suppressing others, their voices, the facts, the truths, it's a frantic daily battle to keep them quiet and stop too many people seeing too much, and that battle goes on without conscience or regard for how severe the impact gets, particularly on women and children. That tells you really all you need to know about what is very, very questionable here.

This has had impact directly on MNetters where meetings where women talked to Refuge management staff about how severely they were impacted by male people in the refuges not only included the staff openly Not Caring when many of the women from these refuges were in tears, but the management later publicly stating that no women had ever told them it was a problem for them.

The political strategy of just pretending that inconvenient facts and other people's needs don't exist is not a bug, it is absolute mainframe, and this is what must be confronted. This political lobby are absolutely reliant on suppressing others, their voices, the facts, the truths, it's a frantic daily battle to keep them quiet and stop too many people seeing too much, and that battle goes on without conscience or regard for how severe the impact gets, particularly on women and children. That tells you really all you need to know about what is very, very questionable here.

This deserves repeating.

It has all been a very clever campaign. No marching, protests, demands…. Just the insidious creep into influential bodies and the acquisition of power within them. Then the “emperor’s new clothes” brainwashing of the young and the silencing of the not so young who are portrayed as bigots/wrong side of history/Nazis… or just silly old Karens.

@DottyHarmer

It has all been a very clever campaign. No marching, protests, demands…. Just the insidious creep into influential bodies and the acquisition of power within them. Then the “emperor’s new clothes” brainwashing of the young and the silencing of the not so young who are portrayed as bigots/wrong side of history/Nazis… or just silly old Karens.

Absolutely agree and put very succinctly - this is exactly what has happened. It has silenced opposition

This has had impact directly on MNetters where meetings where women talked to Refuge management staff about how severely they were impacted by male people in the refuges not only included the staff openly Not Caring when many of the women from these refuges were in tears, but the management later publicly stating that no women had ever told them it was a problem for them.

It's also worth bearing in mind Shonagh Dillon's findings from her recent PhD that call that account even further into question. (All of the following is a quotation from Shonagh's thesis and she's made it available online: ‘#TERF/Bigot/Transphobe’ – ‘We found the witch, burn her!’ .)

The second finding, the one that during the data collection period surprised me most, relates to the participants I interviewed that also took part in the Stonewall Research. This research undertook interviews with 15 professionals from 12 national umbrella bodies and frontline services in the MVAW sector: reporting gender reform would have no impact.

I interviewed a third of the same participants and my findings were quite different, you can go straight to chapter 6, (The Impact) p.201, if you want to skip to this part of my research, but for a sneak preview here are a few of the participant’s quotes:

We certainly have had an issue with a perpetrator self-IDing…where someone is manipulative, they will use the system. I did say to Stonewall there is problems with any legislation and there will be unintended consequences. (2)

I tried to make it really clear [to Stonewall] that it is not uncomplicated, it is very complicated, and it is something that we have questioned all the time. (4)

I can be a trans-inclusive service, but I am telling you right now there will be different ways of delivering that service and probably different doors! (1)

Obviously, I offer potential reasons as to why my findings and Stonewall’s are very different, these can be found on p.226, in the conclusion. But it is concerning and could point to a fear from professionals within the MVAW sector in raising their voices against transgender ideology, and or gender reform.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4287881-Congratulations-Shonagh-Dillon-for-Defending-Your-PhD-TERF-Bigot-Transphobe-We-found-the-witch-burn-her?msgid=108769551

I don't for one second find even one acceptable however , and I apologize if anyone thinks I am not angered that this could even have occurred in the first instance.
Work obviously needs to be done so that it can never occur again.

In the sane year this event happend 2021.
This was also the highest number of murdered (375) trans women .
And yet I don't hear anything on the news or in the house of lords.
This isn't including assaulted beaten raped humiliated etc
So at what point do we begin to recognise trans women are facing the very exact same issues from misogyny as all of us .

This is where your anger needs to be placed.
You conflate trans woman with predatory men ...the very type they have most to fear from.

And I'm happy to be corrected but, this isn't a typical hospital ward from what I can scrape from articles.

It appears that the rape took place within a nhs mental health facility.
This of course doesn't detract from the abhorrent nature of the crime but allows for a better understanding of the environment and situation.

Forbes: 375 Transgender People Murdered In 2021-'Deadliest Year' Since Records Began.

www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2021/11/11/375-transgender-people-murdered-in-2021-deadliest-year-since-records-began/

This is where your anger needs to be placed.
You conflate trans woman with predatory men ...the very type they have most to fear from.

Good point.
Please draft a policy that would allow a hospital to identify the difference and allow the first group in but not the second.

No-one is "conflating trans women with predatory men". They are conflating transwomen with men, because that is what they are. Some men are predatory. Many aren't.