Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

Don't know why those double letters appeared

Dictionary definition of stonewall

'to stop a discussion from developing by refusing to answer questions or by talking in such a way that you prevent other people from giving their opinions'

What an aptly named organisation they are.

The relevant part of Hansard starts at 1.15 am, in the middle of Baroness Nicholson's remarks. Lord Etheron (bigears) starts immediately afterwards. It's worth reading the whole debate. The Baroness kicks it off and, as it's late, they're not too verbose.

I honestly think this is the most sinister thing I've ever read on this issue. The NHS must be sued until it winces, several people must be sacked, and if people misled a criminal investigation they should face criminal charges.

Sexual assault in hospitals, especially psychiatric hospitals, is a scandal that needs to explode.

[quote Tiphaine]Here's the Hansard transcript DameHelena

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill[/quote]
Great, thanks so much.
My MP is a diehard Corbynista, which is generally shit but which in this case means she might be willing to put the boot in if Starmer shows signs of agreeing with (or not daring to stand up to) Etheringon on this point.

@LakieLady
S22(4)(f) of the GRA2004 allows disclosure of transgender status
“ (f)the disclosure is for the purpose of preventing or investigating crime,”

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/22

They were legally allowed to disclose under the GRA too.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]OP There has been another related thread on this, and it includes the Hansard report with Baroness Nicholson’s speech (where this rape was detailed). That Hansard link includes the other speeches too. Lord Etherton’s in particular is of note where he refusing to see a reason for amending annex B which tells hospital staff to lie about trans people on a ward.

This is the other thread in case anyone would like to read it. Fears over ‘flawed’ NHS single-sex wards review carried out by ‘trans advocate’ | Mumsnet

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4506395-Fears-over-flawed-NHS-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-advocate[/quote]
There is also some discussion about this on this thread about Baroness NIcholson:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4506091-Emma-Nicholson-in-the-Times

There is also this thread about Annex B (which is the part of the NHS guidance which allows males into women's wards) from 2019 when this was introduced as new guidance, but when you get to the end of the thread you see that the guidance has actually been in place since 2009 and was written by GIRES.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3705528-New-NHS-guidance-on-same-sex-accommodation

If a doctor or nurse cannot tell the biological difference between a male and female they should have their medical licence revoked. If these “medical professionals” don’t have the first clue on basic biology then they have no place treating patients.
Makes me wonder what else they don’t know.

We do know . It's just that official policy tells us that if we admit reality, we are the same as racists and will be subject to disciplinary procedures and potentially reported to the police for hate crimes. I tried to raise the issues with the trans policies in my workplace (NHS hospital), the official response was that the policy had been approved by the LGBT staff network and a local LGBT charity and therefore was fine, and I had to go on the 'diversity' training provided by said charity. This is not an outlier, this is the result of deliberate, publicised, board-approved policies in NHS trusts. Staff who point out the mile-wide safeguarding loopholes are threatened and silenced.

LakieLady I know people exist who really don't think any prisoners deserve any level of care but it's still shocking to hear they admit it out loud tbh.

Yes - and while I strongly disagree, and do think female prisoners have rights and deserve protection, doesn't this person realise that even if she doesn't care about other women, it could be her? The Post Office scandal was quite recent and saw a number of totally innocent women imprisoned. It could be any woman. We have rights and protections for everyone, not just "good people".

There are sometimes people on MN who worry that sueing "the NHS" is a morally wrong thing to do, concerned that this would be taking money from patient care etc. It does not work like that. When you sue a Trust (or an employee of a Trust) it is dealt with through insurance which every Trust has, via a body called NHS Resolution.

The exceptions in the Equalities Act which say single sex could be allowed in certain settings, seem in practice to be cancelled out by the Equalities Act setting out the rights of trans gender people to be treated as the sex they say they are - with ‘annex B’ - saying no one has the right to be told someone on their midst ( hospital ward) is trans gender.

It is complete mess. And no one can go to court every time they try to take a sensible decision. A decision that someone like Lord Etherton can quash using legal expertise.

In practice the rights of anyone saying they
are tran women trumps the sex based rights of 51% of the population.

Truly orwellian.

Those involved, including those who gave those ridiculous and false statements, should be jailed for the rest of their lives.

@hamstersarse

We need a revolution.

This shit cannot continue to happen in plain sight.

I feel like we are letting this happen too easily and we need to get more fierce about it. Fuck going along with the lies for one minute longer. I won't be complicit with these lies any longer.

I am starting to think we need a wholesale clear-out of the upper governance tier in Britain.

We simply cannot viably run a country in another remotely approaching a reasonable manner when we have politicians, governors, trustees, MPs, councillors, institutional directors et al who are quite obviously not of a standard that equips them to pursue their roles in a responsible manner.

TLDR: these people are exposing themselves to be either frightfully dense or so bought by lobbying that it constitutes a form of corruption.

I do think we need a revolution now. These people need to go. It is not acceptable for a government-funded institution to knowingly create unsafe environments for vulnerable individuals, and then, when a crime takes place, to deny the incident occurred in such a blatant way.

What kind of people are in governance here? Because they damn well shouldn't be.

Here here.

Women have got to stop being the easier and less scary group to piss all over.

@EsmaCannonball

I honestly think this is the most sinister thing I've ever read on this issue. The NHS must be sued until it winces, several people must be sacked, and if people misled a criminal investigation they should face criminal charges.

Sexual assault in hospitals, especially psychiatric hospitals, is a scandal that needs to explode.

If it were a court case in Ireland there would have been no legal way to say it was a man who committed the rape and the victim could possibly even have been accused of hate crimes for saying so.

Women have got to stop being the easier and less scary group to piss all over.

This is the only way it is going to change. There need to be more social media pile ons for misogynistic decisions, not less.

@MoonOnASpoon
I agree with what you said earlier about women in prison deserving safety and dignity and their own space as opposed to ‘deserving anything they get’. As this has come up on this thread, I thought it was worth posting this about female prisoners:

More women are sent to prison to serve a sentence for theft than for violence against the person, robbery, sexual offences, drugs, and motoring offences combined. Women in prison are highly likely to be victims as well as offenders
www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk › ...
Women in the criminal justice system - Prison Reform Trust

Absolutely scrollingleaves. Women in prison are highly likely to be abuse victims already, and have mental health issues (as do many male prisoners).

But it doesn't even matter if a woman is the personification of evil. Her punishment by law is incarceration, not being put at risk from male sex offenders and potentially raped.

Fuck it, I’m going to start referring to men as penises. (I do already call a lot of them dicks to be fair)

But, if I (or any female family or friend I am advocating for) have to go into hospital or anywhere that we may be vulnerable I am not going to ask if there are any males. I will ask if there are any penises.

If it’s not men who rape us (the fucking STUPIDITY) then it’s penises and it’s penises I must be vigilant against.

Fuck those people who played a part in this absolutely revolting gaslighting. Truly, truly abhorrent.

Be angry.

Anger is POWER.

Be angry with every single person in power, on every level of society. Every MP. Every person of power in Industry and the corporate world, every union leader, every police officer. Schools, LEAs, every NGO and institution. Every single individual who plays along with this narrative. Every single one of them knows full well the full extent of this. Every single one of them is culpable (to varying extents).

Be angry with them all. And get angrier. No one is going to fix this for us. We will have to fix it for ourselves. And if that means breaking down the entire system and getting rid of every single person that has failed to uphold good and right and truth, then so be it.

My heart goes out to the woman who was raped.

She was taken advantage of when she was ill and at her most vulnerable. Then nobody believed her and the very people who should have been protecting her betrayed her to the police.

And now she can't even get help from a Rape Crisis centre or support group without running the risk that a male person like her rapist will be there and she will have to pretend to believe that the male person is a woman in order to get the care she needs.

“@hamstersarse
We need a revolution.

This shit cannot continue to happen in plain sight.

I feel like we are letting this happen too easily and we need to get more fierce about it. Fuck going along with the lies for one minute longer. I won't be complicit with these lies any longer.

“I am starting to think we need a wholesale clear-out of the upper governance tier in Britain*.

We simply cannot viably run a country in another remotely approaching a reasonable manner when we have politicians, governors, trustees, MPs, councillors, institutional directors et al who are quite obviously not of a standard that equips them to pursue their roles in a responsible manner.“

I agree with feeling angrier and angrier about lies, spin, and also a lack of common sense, being allowed to dominate and engineer our society.
That men can be women is one of the most ridiculous.

Those staff spouting "No man was present" are not only lying, they're perverting the course of justice. They were effectively calling a raped woman a LIAR.

@Snoodsy

And what if this traumatized woman wants to go to a single-sex rape crisis center for help and she finds there are trans women (biological men) in her support group? And the director is a trans woman? There are really no safe spaces for women anymore.

I'm hoping this type of risk is low ref transgender attacks, but I know what you mean OP.

Hope there are charges ref perverting the course of justice and this crime is prosecuted. Question is, where would they jail the perp? They're obvs not sade with women....

Safe

@HollyBollyBooBoo

Utterly mind blowing. When the fuck will this all end.

All the things we've been predicting are happening - but Stonewall et al have so comprehensively captured every, single organisation than even when they do happen, it's denied, brushed aside, derided as inconsequential. What men want, men must have. And qn alarming number of women continue to support this.