Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

I am so fucking angry.

[quote ChristinaXYZ]In the light of the outrage over this - please consider writing to your MP in England over the flawed reviews of single sex spaces in the NHS.

I posted about this in activism a few days ago.

I hope we can get a real campaign going.

ovarit.com/o/Activism/68270/write-to-your-mp-over-flawed-nhs-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-ad

see also this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4506395-Fears-over-flawed-NHS-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-advocate[/quote]
A good reminder.
It will also flush out of the woodwork all the MPs like Lisa Nandy who openly advocate for male born rapists to be placed in women's prisons, hospital wards. At the time she said it I didn't think that got enough publicity.

What really depresses me is that our very competent local Tory MP will no doubt be much more sensible on this issue than all the other candidates at the local hustings.

I have never in my (quite long) life voted Conservative.

So far.

“Unsure33

can someone please question Starmer about this ? he is supposed to be the legal expert . I want to see him explain this .“

Lord Etherton spoke as part of this debate following Baroness Nicholson who brought up the rape case ( and had seen the police report and knew it was true). He is a hugely knowledgeable judge. He used all his legal brilliance to argue that trans people must be protected according to the Equalities Act and annex B -which tells staff to lie to protect the trans person- must be upheld. Keir Starmer would probably do the same.

Even if Patient B had been a biological female who had attacked and raped patient A using some other means it would still be rape and an attack.
Why the hell would they deny rape had occurred ?
I do agree that any patient to whom this happened needs and deserves it to be acknowledged and investigated, not denied.

However, rape is specifically, in law, penetration without consent with their penis. So no, it wouldn't technically have been rape had it been a woman.
Or, to flip it, it matters very much that a penis was involved and that we name the crime as rape. And that its logical follow-on – that only men can rape – is preserved. Rape has its specific definition in law for very good reasons and if we start to muddy that definition we are on a slippery slope.

@PierresPotato

I do know this but for example when I said to my DH that a man having had no surgery or treatment could now simply identify his way into a women's prison he scoffed and said the authorities would knock that idea on the head..He knows now too.

When I've discussed it with people who were unaware, they are utterly incredulous about it.

They often think that I've got it wrong, or that it's not something that could never impact on them/their partner/daughter etc.

My SIL was quite positive that this could never happen at the posh sports clubs her DD goes to. Presumably she thinks that predatory sex offenders only exist in the lower orders or that "naice" establishments would somehow weed them out.

She was also unconcerned about the risk to women prisoners, on the basis that "if they've done something bad enough to be in prison, they deserve it".

Starmer knows - he doesn't care. There's a "sacred caste" and their rights outweigh everyone else's - especially women and children's.

@ScrollingLeaves

“Unsure33

can someone please question Starmer about this ? he is supposed to be the legal expert . I want to see him explain this .“

Lord Etherton spoke as part of this debate following Baroness Nicholson who brought up the rape case ( and had seen the police report and knew it was true). He is a hugely knowledgeable judge. He used all his legal brilliance to argue that trans people must be protected according to the Equalities Act and annex B -which tells staff to lie to protect the trans person- must be upheld. Keir Starmer would probably do the same.

Is there a transcript of this available, do you know? I'm going to write to my MP about it but want to know exactly what he said before I do.

What the hell! I hope she sues every last one of them and takes them for all they have, every Penny, I hope it breaks them!! This is so sickening it’s made me so angry!

@Seadragonusgiganticusmaximus

I thought that TRAs believe that a penis can be a female organ..

The hospital authorities clearly do not believe this.

How terribly transphobic of them.

People are afraid to challenge for fear of disciplinary procedures. Those who do stick their heads above the parapet risk (and sometimes bravely do so) their jobs and being labelled transphobic and worse.

Here's the Hansard transcript DameHelena

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill

Just had a very quick read of the Royal College of Nursing's Duty of Care. As I would understand it, as an architypical man (for this post, then I'll detransition) on the Clapham omnibus, there is no way it was adhered to.

[quote Tiphaine]Here's the Hansard transcript DameHelena

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill[/quote]

And Lord Etherton's speech specifically

View the Hansard contribution by Lord Etherton (CB) on Wednesday 16 March 2022 hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2022-03-16/debates/84C9B6AA-0214-4CEF-A41D-302373BDC190/HealthAndCareBill#contribution-2C34DA23-A5AD-483E-ACB8-AF8A5C547F73

@ScrollingLeaves

“Unsure33

can someone please question Starmer about this ? he is supposed to be the legal expert . I want to see him explain this .“

Lord Etherton spoke as part of this debate following Baroness Nicholson who brought up the rape case ( and had seen the police report and knew it was true). He is a hugely knowledgeable judge. He used all his legal brilliance to argue that trans people must be protected according to the Equalities Act and annex B -which tells staff to lie to protect the trans person- must be upheld. Keir Starmer would probably do the same.

The Equality Act sets out that discrimination can be justified if it’s a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. The aim is the reason for the action being taken, for example, prosecuting an offender. To be legitimate, this reason must not be discriminatory in itself and it must be genuine.

In an ideal world anyway.

Sadly women being sexually assaulted or raped in psychiatric wards is not an uncommon event. They can and do sue hospital Trusts, hopefully this women feels able to do that, as she would potentially recover damages not just for the assault but also for the effects on her of the subsequent outrageous behaviour of the hospital.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Starmer knows - he doesn't care. There's a "sacred caste" and their rights outweigh everyone else's - especially women and children's.

This makes things very difficult for those of us who are lifelong socialists and feminists.

I think a lot of women may find it difficult to vote for a party that has such scant regard for women's safety and appears to have drunk the TRA kool-aid.

People are afraid to challenge for fear of disciplinary procedures. Those who do stick their heads above the parapet risk (and sometimes bravely do so) their jobs and being labelled transphobic and worse.

Didn't Kate Grimes report that many people had spoken to her in confidence because they can't speak up in the workplace?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4267939-Working-with-Stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-NHS-values-Comment-Health-Service-Journal

Literally everyone in the NHS from estates and even contractors has to complete the safeguarding modules and yet they're to be set aside when it conflicts with circumstances such as these.

@VelvetChairGirl

Which hospital is it we need to know?

they should be nailed to the fucking wall, sex discrimination, perverting the course of justice, withholding evidence and aiding and abetting a criminal.

Yes, absolutely.

Lord Etherton spoke as part of this debate following Baroness Nicholson who brought up the rape case ( and had seen the police report and knew it was true). He is a hugely knowledgeable judge. He used all his legal brilliance to argue that trans people must be protected according to the Equalities Act and annex B -which tells staff to lie to protect the trans person- must be upheld. Keir Starmer would probably do the same.

Then that law needs to be changed. There must be no reason why witnesses to a crime must lie to protect someone on the basis of their self-identity. This may be the case that brings the law under the scrutiny that it desperately needs. We need to repeal the GRA. People can call themselves what they like, dress how they like, but the legal fiction that anyone can change sex has to be quashed. Sex is binary and immutable. If you're born with a penis you're a man and nothing can change that — not surgery, not hormones, not lipstick, not a piece of paper.

@LoisLane66

Thread aside, why does every other comment use the 'f' word? Is it really necessary? I find it really base.

Because women are angry deeply, gut wrenchingly fucking angry that a rape victim was re-traumatised and dismissed to protect the feelings of the biological male who raped her. If you want base, uncouth immorality then look at the behaviour of every single person who colluded in the rape denial.

LakieLady I know people exist who really don't think any prisoners deserve any level of care but it's still shocking to hear they admit it out loud tbh.

LoisLane66, do you know something about what it is to be a lady that we don't?

Dictionary definition of the verb 'stonewall'

to stopp* a discussionn* from developingg* by refusingg* to answerr questionss or by talkingg* in such a way that you preventt* other peoplee* from giving theirr opinionss

Fucking right it's hard to vote Labour at the moment. I can vote for an independent in the locals and that is it. If my local Labour person was a feminist, such as Rosie Duffield, I'd vote Labour to support her. But she's not. She thinks males who utter some very important words, who may or may not don lipstick, are more marginalised, more held back and more at risk in society, than women. I despair.

As an ex member, I still get constant phone calls when elections loom. Their understanding of gdpr is as woeful as their understanding of safeguarding.

The Equality Act sets out that discrimination can be justified if it’s a
proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. The aim is the reason for the action being taken, for example, prosecuting an offender. To be legitimate, this reason must not be discriminatory in itself and it must be genuine.

Thanks for that, @ImJustMadAboutSaffron .

Taking that a stage further, I would suggest that the hospital, in telling the police that it was impossible for a woman on that ward to have been raped, hindered the apprehension of a rapist. This put more women at risk, and that as men weren't similarly put at risk, it was was, in itself, discriminatory.

But my logic may well be blinded by rage.