Hospital told police patient not raped because attacker transgender

[Snoodsy]

A hospital told the police that a patient could not have been raped because her alleged attacker was trans, the House of Lords has heard.

The attack took place a year ago and the woman reported it but when officers contacted the hospital, which has not been named, they were told “that there was no male in the hospital, therefore the rape could not have happened”.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, who raised the issue during a debate on single-sex wards, continued: “They forgot that there was CCTV, nurses and observers.

“None the less, it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that there was a male on the ward and, yes, this rape happened.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20220317203204/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

@LoisLane66

IMO it simply shows your background. Educated individuals would be fully aware of the underlying anger surrounding the reporting of the incident, without the need to remark on it in base language. I doubt the police, hospital staff or reporters used such language at the time it was being discussed between those involved, leastways not in public, and this is a public forum. I doubt whether the victim herself used such language to the nursing staff or police when reporting it or indeed the nursing staff reporting to police. .still, there's no accounting for low language standards nowadays on these sites.

That's such an old and tired trope, that swearing means you're thick/uneducated. Perhaps go and think of a new one and then come back? Or just stay off 'these sites' if they offend your delicate sensibilities.

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Oops - Zombie got there first .

Speedy today - fuelled mostly by rage

@LoisLane66

IMO it simply shows your background. Educated individuals would be fully aware of the underlying anger surrounding the reporting of the incident, without the need to remark on it in base language. I doubt the police, hospital staff or reporters used such language at the time it was being discussed between those involved, leastways not in public, and this is a public forum. I doubt whether the victim herself used such language to the nursing staff or police when reporting it or indeed the nursing staff reporting to police. .still, there's no accounting for low language standards nowadays on these sites.

As someone with post-grad qualifications and something like 18 letters after their name, do fuck off. You need to check your priorities, and your silly sense of being above us all because we swear when we’re angry.

That poor poor lady unfortunately represents everyone who calls this out for what it is and isn't believed.

Protecting women spaces is imperative. This is exactly why. I'm so sorry for this lady.

Christ that's awful. That poor woman.

The Baroness is like Batwoman, isn't she. Thank the lord she's on our side.

Now awaiting the usual crowd to pop along and give their anti women tuppence with a weird convoluted reason why we're all bigots

Is the rape victim doing to sue? I hope she does and I very rarely think the NHS should be sued.
I wonder if we can start to shake things up by specifically requesting womens wards when we go into hospital.

I don't even think it matters male or female, penis or no penis.

A patient in hospital (vulnerable and believing to be in a safe space) was raped and assaulted by a patient B.

Where were the staff? on finding out about the attack what did they do?

Even if Patient B had been a biological female who had attacked and raped patient A using some other means it would still be rape and an attack.
Why the hell would they deny rape had occurred ?

How the hell is someone so ill they are a patient in hospital able to attack someone. surely they shouldnt have been in hospital in the first place.

It is awful for the victim here who has nt only been raped but had the trauma of not only not being believed but being gaslit to believe that this was impossible

I doubt the police, hospital staff or reporters used such language at the time it was being discussed between those involved, leastways not in public, and this is a public forum.

I find this truly remarkable in the light of all the recent revelations about the misogyny, racism, and homophobia in WhatsApp groups for Police personnel. tbh, I doubt it's better for the other named groups. I'd rather it were in public than concealed where such attitudes can be denied or their impact minimised.

@LoisLane66

IMO it simply shows your background. Educated individuals would be fully aware of the underlying anger surrounding the reporting of the incident, without the need to remark on it in base language. I doubt the police, hospital staff or reporters used such language at the time it was being discussed between those involved, leastways not in public, and this is a public forum. I doubt whether the victim herself used such language to the nursing staff or police when reporting it or indeed the nursing staff reporting to police. .still, there's no accounting for low language standards nowadays on these sites.

If you are as educated as you claim then you will know that this is not correct as shown in many studies.

@OvaHere

The people who facilitated this happening should be charged under the joint enterprise law. Might start making them think twice.

If trafficked women who are forced by pimps into finding other victims are charged under that law (and they have been) then the people who made sure this poor woman (and potentially others) was an open target for this hideous man should be charged too.

And everyone who was involved in attempting to cover this up should be charged with perverting the course of justice.

@LoisLane66

Stop derailing this discussion by focusing on how we are expressing our anger.

MN has very clear policies for deletion and are not shy in using them. So if a post is not deleted we can safely say the language is fine. You don’t need to read it.

We've got an attempted derailer I see. The usual suspects are pretty quiet though. Maybe "n+1" will be along later to say they don't believe her but even if it was true it's only once.

IMO it simply shows your background. Educated individuals would be fully aware of the underlying anger surrounding the reporting of the incident, without the need to remark on it in base language.

Swearing is correlated with higher intelligence, greater vocabulary and greater honesty.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/swearing-study-intelligent-intelligence-university-of-rochester-a7916516.html

www.sciencealert.com/swearing-is-a-sign-of-more-intelligence-not-less-say-scientists

www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/insight/2017/frankly-do-we-give-a-damn-study-finds-links-between-swearing-and-honesty/

Thank you everyone who provided the link to FPFW.

My background was growing up on a rough council estate in the East End of London. Life was tough and many of my peers died far too young because of it. Swearing is second nature but so is not judging other people for their backgrounds. I know what background I'd prefer.

I don't even think it matters male or female, penis or no penis.

A patient in hospital (vulnerable and believing to be in a safe space) was raped and assaulted by a patient B.

I agree with you that an attack should have been investigated but this wasn't a female, it was a male, and males commit 98% of sex crimes. The woman was put in danger by the hospital, and gaslighted about it. Her needs and feelings were ignored. Both points matter.

@Shtfday

I don't even think it matters male or female, penis or no penis.

A patient in hospital (vulnerable and believing to be in a safe space) was raped and assaulted by a patient B.

Where were the staff? on finding out about the attack what did they do?

Even if Patient B had been a biological female who had attacked and raped patient A using some other means it would still be rape and an attack.
Why the hell would they deny rape had occurred ?

How the hell is someone so ill they are a patient in hospital able to attack someone. surely they shouldnt have been in hospital in the first place.

It is awful for the victim here who has nt only been raped but had the trauma of not only not being believed but being gaslit to believe that this was impossible

Of course it matters, don't be ridiculous. Had the hospital followed the law as they're supposed to and maintained a single sex space for female patients the whole incident would not have happened in the first place.

Isn't this a bizarre own goal? By saying that there were no men on the ward, therefore no penis...aren't they asserting that only men have penises? I thought we were meant to acknowledge that women can have penises too?

@JanetheObscure

I am possibly more open to the idea that TWAW than most on this thread. However, anyone who chooses to use their male organ to perpetrate an unspeakable crime is - without any question at all - not a TW.

The same goes for TM who give birth.

Hi.

So trans women are women until they rape someone?

When any action against rape is at an all time low, how do we think that will work out? How do women know not to get themselves into a situation with a male who says they are a woman, prior to the rape happening? How would safeguarding work 'Oh he hasn't raped anyone YET'...

This is such a farcial insult to women. To pretend men are women until they rape you. EXCELLENT WORK TOP OF THE CLASS.

This is awful. I would love to know what trust this is! Poor woman.

Why has the hospital not been named? Why should they be allowed to hide from this?

I echo others in saying if there is a crowdfunder I will contribute.
I would understand if she didn’t want to go through the further trauma of legal action though.

@TheCurrywurstPrion

I don’t generally like people suing the NHS, but I think this might be one time it’s more than warranted. I’m still having trouble getting my head around the idea that the hospital would knowingly do this. Not that I disbelieve it, but it really is that shocking, even in the current climate.

I agree. I would rather the victim could sue the people who wrote this errant nonsense but in the meantime those applying it will have to do.

If 1 person with a penis used it against the will of another person then that is rape, however they identify. Yes, it is shocking (as all rape is). But the 'handling' of this is truly frightening. And I say that as a female in Scotland with an autistic Dd who I need to keep safe in the world.

@TabithaTittlemouse

This is awful. I would love to know what trust this is! Poor woman.

I'd love to know how many more rapes and assaults they've been covering up. Because you know they have.