New statesman article: I once agreed with J.K. Rowling

[KookaburraSits]

Sorry if this has already been posted. It's embarrassingly bad.

www.newstatesman.com/comment/2022/03/as-a-victim-of-abuse-i-once-agreed-with-jk-rowling

Highlights of idiocy include:

"It is true that there are no meaningful statistics to suggest transgender women pose a threat to cis women like me. The argument is theoretical — hypothetical even."

"What I did know was that most of the politicians and commentators that I agreed with on every other issue were fighting hard for trans rights. So I understood that I must be missing some piece of the moral puzzle"

"Then I saw how profoundly misdirected her fear was. Because trans women are not the perpetrators but the victims of violence: last year an estimated 375 trans, non-binary or gender non-conforming peoplewere killed across the world."

"They say that sex matters for gender and you cannot call yourself a woman if you haven’t had periods, for example."

Science shows us that affirming trans children is actually the best course to keep them from depression and suicide

This is incorrect. There’s been a report published just this week that casts doubt on this narrative: cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf

And even if it were correct, this is not a good way to talk to children and young people about suicidality and suicide. Suggesting that one problem can lead to suicide, and that one fix can prevent suicide is a prime way of encouraging more vulnerable people to think seriously about suicide. Don’t be so irresponsible, please.

Time to sing, Shakira.

Come on Elaine, tell us what has to happen to change a male person into a trans one.

What happens? Something must for you to be flying the flag...something must have persuaded you so what it is?

Unless nothing happens and it is all just, well...who knows?

I'm gonna have to go now I'm afraid. Although I don't think that I can convince many of the people responding, I do hope that any onlookers reading the thread might reexamine their biases against a marginalized people, especially in light of the original article topic.

“@ElaineFuchs
I don't know what else to say here really.

You said "Gender is not interchangeable with sex in law." but the government says "It is important to note that the law in the UK treats the terms sex and gender as interchangeable."

I'm not denying that the government might have separate definitions, but the government isn't the law.“

I am not sure what you mean. I never said what you say I did. In regard to the ONS link previously posted, I said sex and gender were differentiated and copied and pasted the ONS wording to show this.

No, really?

What a let down I thought I'd learn something tonight.

Possibly some of those onlookers may also notice the whopping, enormous bias and lack of capacity for reciprocal thinking expressed towards female people as a marginalised and (actually) oppressed people. Especially in the light of that really quite obvious article.

I think any unbiased onlookers are perfectly able to see what is going on. Elaine.

Especially in the light of that really quite obvious article.

I misread that as "odious". That too.

I do hope that any onlookers reading the thread might reexamine their biases against a marginalized people

Yes, indeed. Women have been putting up with this shit for far too long. The deeply entrenched sexism inherent in the idea of 'gender identity' is only now starting to come clear to me, and I've been following this issue for several years.

Admit it. You've been had. You have no actual argument. Time to pop off and bake a cake?

Good call. Didn't take long!

@Sophoclesthefox

Science shows us that affirming trans children is actually the best course to keep them from depression and suicide

This is incorrect. There’s been a report published just this week that casts doubt on this narrative: cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf

And even if it were correct, this is not a good way to talk to children and young people about suicidality and suicide. Suggesting that one problem can lead to suicide, and that one fix can prevent suicide is a prime way of encouraging more vulnerable people to think seriously about suicide. Don’t be so irresponsible, please.

'Science'

@ElaineFuchs

I'm gonna have to go now I'm afraid. Although I don't think that I can convince many of the people responding, I do hope that any onlookers reading the thread might reexamine their biases against a marginalized people, especially in light of the original article topic.

You going to re-examine your biases against a discriminated against class of people ?

I'm jus asking to be left alone to live my life free of all and any gender constraints but you want to force people into gender boxes

I want to live my life free of sexual harressment but you want to remove the physical protections and take away my dignity in the process

[quote ElaineFuchs]@JellySaurus, I think we're getting off topic a bit, but I feel I should respond if that's OK.

"Is that what trans-identifying people want?"

Probably best to leave these decisions up to trans people then I suppose. I think that any magority people talking for a marginalised people group tends to end badly, like when men use their privilege to talk over women and tell us what we want.

That story about the ectopic pregnancy is very sad. Seems like if you're not a cis white man, then healthcare can sometimes be a very unfriendly place. Healthcare definitely should make note of sexed characteristics where relevant.

"Trans people do not suffer due to feminists prioritising safeguarding."

I agree with this :) a really important part of safeguarding is not to assume anyone is a particular threat because of characteristics like race or gender etc... It's part of what allows heartbreaking stories of those considered "safe" to commit terrible abuse.[/quote]
A breath of fresh air.

A breath of fresh air.

Sadly it looks like Elaine has gone, and won't be returning.

There are sone free courses on Coursera on statistics that you might want to try

Little quiz for you

If a plane has a 1 in 2 chance of crashing and the train a 1 in1000 chance - would you think the plane no different to the train ?

I mean Bt your logic yes both can crash

Oh dear the irony.

Particularly the bit about probably not a great idea to talk over people who you have no idea of the realities, issues or problems of and when what you're mostly doing is imposing your own agenda on top of them for your own benefit.

Gosh we see a lot of that.

@Artichokeleaves

Oh dear the irony.

Particularly the bit about probably not a great idea to talk over people who you have no idea of the realities, issues or problems of and when what you're mostly doing is imposing your own agenda on top of them for your own benefit.

Gosh we see a lot of that.

Don't we just.

I don’t tend to agree that people blithely talking in ways that we know are likely increase suicidality in young people are “a breath of fresh air”, Robin, but perhaps you and I have very different definitions of that.

@mudgetastic

We also know that when children were not given the option to be trans , they tended not to commit suicide at any higher rates than they do today

Bluntly ... at a society level there is no reduction in child suicides associated with increasing levels of transgender affirmation

This is a very good point actually, and one that needs re-emphasising. How come this 'epidemic/genocide' etc of trans kids apparently killing themselves wasn't happening 30 years ago when the idea of kids taking hormone blockers and getting healthy body parts chopped off would have just been batshir crazy?

I'm not going to claim that you hate children, because you may have good intentions, but I will say that your actionsarehurting trans children and trans adults. It's not possible to make a trans kid cis, but it is possible to make a trans kid sad.

Did you know that it is possible to make girls (female kids) sad?

Text for people using screenreaders.

Upper Caption:

Chicago School District 211 Grants Transgender Students "Unrestricted Access" to Locker Rooms

Lower Caption:
After the School Board voted 5-2 to allow male students who identify as female into girls' locker rooms, two students reacted

Two passport-style photos of students. The left image shows a smiling teenager with pink hair and glasses. This is labelled with the quote
"I'm ecstatic"

and attributed to a [named] Transgender Student at the school.

The right image shows a sad-looking teenage girl with brown hair. This is labelled with

"I feel uncomfortable my privacy's being invaded. As a swimmer, I change multiple times, naked, in front of the other students in the locker room."

It is attributed to another [named] student at the school.

Science shows us that affirming trans children is actually the best course to keep them from depression and suicide.

Science shows nothing of the sort and weaponising child suicide is one of the most abhorrent aspects of this ideology.

I'm not going to claim that you hate children, because you may have good intentions, but I will say that your actions are hurting trans children and trans adults. It's not possible to make a trans kid cis, but it is possible to make a trans kid sad.

Children are being harmed by this ideology irrevocably so, I'd say that's pretty hateful.

The harm being done to women and children by this ideology is more than hurtful, it's dangerous, insulting and downright cruel.

Are you saying that women are defined by being recognised as women?

They are defined by their biology. Obviously.

Humans are good, but only about 95% or something. Does that mean that if a trans man passes, then he is a man by your definition?

Nope. It means that they are a biological woman whose taken a lot of testosterone. But regardless, they are still their biological sex.

I'm not claiming that ones gender identity influences the shape of ones face!

Okaaay. Not sure what your point is here.

I am very curious to know who you think I am

I'm sure you are. But as doxing is frowned upon by MN I won't provide you with the satisfaction by getting a strike.

Race is a social construct?

So if a white person likes jerk chicken and rice and peas, wants to loc their hair and holiday in barbados, they can identify as black?

Do you actually understand what a social construct is?

A breath of fresh air.

If that's what your interpretation of fresh air is like. The majority would not agree with you.