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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Jessica Taylor New Book

349 replies

Seiheiki · 10/03/2022 12:40

Hi,

Is anyone else going to the Birmingham book launch of Sexy But Psycho on Sunday night?

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Sasketchewoo · 10/03/2022 19:26

I was planning on going, I'm now not. I'm sorry but I'm really horrified by some of the things she posts. I find her very clickbaity and antagonistic, she's posting things that are outside her sphere of professional competence, she is hostile about being criticised even when it's warranted and I know a lot of mental health professionals take huge issue with some of her claims.

I don't want to support someone who behaves in that way, much as I can see she's also doing a lot of good. I know she's very passionate about her work and that it's rooted in significant trauma.

Awalkintime · 10/03/2022 20:30

I'm not going but my book has arrived so looking forward to reading it. I don't live close enough but I would go if it was somewhere near here.

GlorianaCervixia · 10/03/2022 21:11

I’ve been wondering for a while how much clinical experience she actually has. I think she got her PhD only two or three years ago?

Her statements recently about medications have really concerned me. She doesn’t listen to doctors who tell her she’s mistaken but she also doesn’t listen to women telling her that medications made huge positive changes in their lives. She seems so heavily invested in her view that all mental health issues come from trauma that she can’t listen to other people’s experiences. I find her view of medications disappointing and quite stigmatising.

I’ve worked for a long time in mental health and I have been surprised by some of the very broad claims she makes about how psychiatry, medications and diagnosis work. I unfollowed her a while ago.

I think she’s very, very good at creating a brand for herself and promoting that brand. I’m less convinced about the substance behind it.

Clarice99 · 10/03/2022 21:15

I'm not going but my book has arrived so looking forward to reading it.

Same here! At least I was looking forward to reading the book, until I read the few posts on this thread.

Livelifeinthebuslane · 10/03/2022 21:21

I've got her book and I'm looking forward to reading it because I think I agree with a lot of what she says, but will also read it with a critical eye. It's like everything else, you take from it what's useful to integrate it into your thinking but reject other bits that feel less true.

The prolific Twitter publicity can be a bit Hmm but I guess all that energy is why she's written a book and I haven't!

Sasketchewoo · 10/03/2022 21:40

I’ve been wondering for a while how much clinical experience she actually has. I think she got her PhD only two or three years ago?

She isn't a chartered clinical psychologist. She's a chartered psychologist - she did a research PhD. Which is something that is to be respected, but it's very different from being a clinical psychologist.

I think she has worked incredibly hard and put huge energy into creating her business and building a platform for herself. I admire her hugely in many ways. I just wish she'd listen to what others are saying. Much of what she is posting is plain wrong. Even this fundamental idea she's pushing of psychiatry being inherently misogynistic and out to get traumatised women is incredibly offensive. There are lots of extremely kind, well-educated, compassionate psychiatrists whose work saves lives. They aren't trying to drug women up to the eyeballs just to control them.

GlorianaCervixia · 10/03/2022 21:46

Thank you, I'm not from the UK so wasn't familiar with chartered psychologists.

I agree with you about her view of psychiatry as inherently misogynistic. I've worked in mental health a long time with psychiatrists and the overwhelming majority are decent, thoughtful people who are well aware of the darker parts of psychiatry's history.

Labtest7 · 10/03/2022 22:16

I think she is a fantasist. So many thing she says are provable lies that I doubt everything she posts now

felulageller · 10/03/2022 22:20

It's about time someone challenged the psychiatric consensus.

If a man was saying the same things he'd be being applauded.

Dobedodo · 10/03/2022 22:23

@Labtest7

I think she is a fantasist. So many thing she says are provable lies that I doubt everything she posts now
Like what out of interest?
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/03/2022 22:25

I've only read brief accounts of her book, but I think some of her theories are correct in some cases. I'm sure some women are labelled with conditions, that then means they effectively ignored as their condition-label makes them seem unreliable. I think in general there is sometimes a view that problems can be solved by labelling the problem, rather than actually looking at the root causes and trying to fix.

I get the impression though that Taylor believes this is always the case which is obviously not correct. She seems to have gained a large following very quickly and while she has some good ideas she seems unwilling to consider that other ideas are also good. I sometimes get the impression that she is more interested in building a brand rather than works of scientific worth.

BobLep0nge · 10/03/2022 22:50

Nope and I won't be buying the book.

I think her demonisation of psychiatry and medications is dangerous. I have no doubt that a vulnerable woman will be influenced into stopping medication because of the crap JT spouts and that it will end badly.
She's also unable to take criticism, likes to film herself when crying (why would you do that other than for attention?!) and I don't believe half the things she says have happened to her and her partner.

Sasketchewoo · 10/03/2022 22:52

@felulageller

It's about time someone challenged the psychiatric consensus.

If a man was saying the same things he'd be being applauded.

Lots of people have done so going back many years. Google Jeffery Masson - and no, he wasn't applauded, his career suffered hugely.

Psychiatry needs scrutinising, it's done lots of damage to lots of people. But it's not that black and white. There's lots of good about it too. Medication saves many lives, just to give one example.

aweegc · 10/03/2022 23:01

I think she has a point about the roots of psychiatry (I've studied it at uni in a psychology degree). However, I do wonder whether the necessity of short-form in messaging on social media blunts her points. Like people have said, there are many good individuals who work in psychiatry. It could even be the vast majority. However the field at large is responsible for the pathologisation of women's trauma. I would extend that to men's trauma too though. And like other areas of medicine, it views women's ailments through the lens of men's symptoms so it gets things wrong AND in general doesn't openly admit that. I personally know a psychiatrist who left the field because she was utterly fed up of the amount she was being forced to prescribe, to reduce the time of appointments and number of sessions.

She makes good points too about the number of women diagnosed with BPD in comparison to men as well as the number of them who have histories of serious trauma. And she's not coming up with the figures, others have researched them before her. She's merely restating it.

I am not a "fan", as I'm not really a fan of anybody (JKR's tweets on IWD made me wobble on that statement!), but there's definitely a place for what she's saying. And it's rather patronising to talk about her "brand", or that her work comes "out of trauma" etc. Why shouldn't she build a business on the back of her professional experiences helping victims and PhD-level research, as well as any "lived experience"? Even if I disagreed with everything she's saying, she's gone though academia as a working class woman (unless you've been in academia as a blatantly working class woman, that may be hard to fully appreciate) and is building a business. She has people listening to her. It's utterly remarkable what she's done.

It's also possible to appreciate someone without liking everything they do or say. It's possible to buy and read a book of someone you don't agree with. The people who accuse her of not listening seem to be doing similar themselves!

Saying all that, I've not ordered the book. I don't know why. I just don't feel like reading it - my issue is that I know a lot of what she says so it's not new to me.

labtest57 · 10/03/2022 23:02

@Dobedodo
Petty things really. She has posted at least 3 different sets of GCSE results, including her actual ones which are far less impressive than the results she claims to have in various interviews. I don't believe for a second that she missed almost the entirety of year 11 at school, as she has claimed, and was still allowed to take her exams. This just doesn't happen. In an instagram post she claimed to have pulled out a rare Tahitian pearl from an unnamed body of water when she was 9. Where on earth, outside of Tahiti would this be even remotely likely? She painted her husband as a paragon of virtue during their marriage, but now claims he was awful. Recently she was tweeting about entering university as a mature student at 20 without A-Levels, in response to the proposal to scrap student loans for those who do not pass GCSE English and maths, or 2 A Levels at grade E, and how she would have been scuppered had this been in place when she was a student, yet she attended The Open University where A levels are not required anyway. I could go on. Obviously these are just silly lies, but for me, the fact that she tells them, casts doubt on everything she says.

ChameFangeNail · 10/03/2022 23:03

Her work is important.

She is right about 70% of the time.

The other 30% of the time she’s spouting utter nonsense.

I work in a parallel field to her and read her first book and thought it was excellent.so my interest was piqued. I listened to one of their podcasts that she records with her wife and it was just both of them getting progressively more pissed talking about how amazing they were and how their critics were twats, in between long, boring derailments about their wedding. It was so frustrating to listen to.

I also joined her AVBTI network and have watched a couple of her webinars. The one she did about ACES I found very informative. But I had to switch off halfway through the last one because some of the stuff she was saying was ludicrous. Including some very obvious lies to confect real life examples to scaffold her very shaky hypotheses.

Her and her wife both come across as tediously self-regarding. But fuck it, how many men can we say the same of??

aweegc · 10/03/2022 23:04

*the psychiatrist wasn't anti-medication, she felt it was irresponsible to be pushed to prescribe rather help people actually solve their issues because, budgets.

GlorianaCervixia · 10/03/2022 23:11

The idea she often promotes that psychiatry hasn’t been questioned or that that psychiatrists in general aren’t alive to issues of sex, class and power is very strange to me. It’s not my experience at all, especially as so many more women have entered the profession.

I’m not denying at all that there are bad psychiatrists who provide poor care or that psychiatry shouldn’t be subject to scrutiny. I just think she says so many things that are demonstrably false that it undermines her credibility for me.

Dobedodo · 11/03/2022 08:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Labtest7 · 11/03/2022 08:44

@dobedodo I did O levels and was not entered for 2 of my exams because of.poor attendance in those subjects. I also find that some great horror is always befalling her; someone pointed a gun at her in her own garden, she and wife had their drinks spiked, she had some terrible.illness a few years back that's never been mentioned since.....embellishing is really just a euphemism for lying. I also don't find anything she says novel or groundbreaking.

Labtest7 · 11/03/2022 09:01

@Dobedodo

Dr Jessica Taylor New Book
Dr Jessica Taylor New Book
Dr Jessica Taylor New Book
Dobedodo · 11/03/2022 09:47

@Labtest7 yes those were the kind of things i was thinking. Non of the incidents individually are definite falsehoods but added up they so seem to add up to a lot.

I was also really unimpressed when she made a questionnaire and her and her wife made Infograph’s which stated x% of women had suffered y . I saw the flaw of extrapolating this data to the entire U.K. was raised with her repeatedly but she accused people of being elitist! I thought it was really off for them not to understand. Not extrapolating and not making your data appear misleading was drilled into me at undergrad. I would have thought it would be the same for any degree that involved statistics.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 11/03/2022 09:59

@GlorianaCervixia

I’ve been wondering for a while how much clinical experience she actually has. I think she got her PhD only two or three years ago?

Her statements recently about medications have really concerned me. She doesn’t listen to doctors who tell her she’s mistaken but she also doesn’t listen to women telling her that medications made huge positive changes in their lives. She seems so heavily invested in her view that all mental health issues come from trauma that she can’t listen to other people’s experiences. I find her view of medications disappointing and quite stigmatising.

I’ve worked for a long time in mental health and I have been surprised by some of the very broad claims she makes about how psychiatry, medications and diagnosis work. I unfollowed her a while ago.

I think she’s very, very good at creating a brand for herself and promoting that brand. I’m less convinced about the substance behind it.

I do think there's a tendency to pathologise trauma and trauma victims. There are conditions (PTSD/cPTSD) in which treatment with medication, anti-depressants particularly, isn't advisable. As PTSD is the textbook human response to trauma, this gives credence to some of what she says.

She's also right on the count that a time-honoured method of denying women their voices is to label them 'mad'. Once their mental health and/or competence has been questioned, they're no longer taken seriously and that's if they're listened to in the first place. That kind of sexism's been going on since time immemorial, or at least since men were in the habit of clapping a wife they no longer wanted in the bin so that they could take up with another woman.

The problem is the absolutism. She seems to hold utter conviction that ONE position is correct, that approaches to treatment are individual and not one-size-fits all, and that medication is never appropriate in any circumstances. This indicates a personal/professional bias which might be to the detriment of potential clients. A conviction that you're right, and ability to articulate that 'rightness' in a way that sounds convincing, might be persuasive and reassuring to listeners but the acceptance of a need to learn, even when in an advanced career stage, is probably more beneficial to the people in need of treatment.

About the 'horrors' that happen to her: from personal experience I can state that victims of abuse, especially when it's happened at an early age, attract more abuse. Abusers can sense it as though we're putting out radar signals only they can receive. I know this. I've been raped twice, been given a head injury by my father who slammed my head down a door, been stalked twice, been hospitalised after being knocked unconscious by another abusive man. In adulthood, for some reason I don't fully understand, I broke this pattern. I think it was a personal determination not to be a victim. But I still had plenty of men approach me in the street - still happens now to a lesser extent.

That's one reason. Another is the fact that she refuses to shut up about it. To me she's interesting for one reason above all: the abuse women get, the absolutely relentless campaign of harassment, threats, seemingly any means necessary to shut them up at all costs, when they dare to speak about female abuse at the hands of men. About that, she isn't exaggerating. I've seen some of the filth posted onto her tweets.

So, yes. With some reservations, as a victim of trauma myself a lot of this resonates albeit with a major disclaimer: these are personal, political and social observations and not clinical ones.

QuinkWashable · 11/03/2022 10:33

The gcse thing struck me as untrue as well because I am same age as Jess and missed a lot of y10/y11 (20%ish) due to school refusal. And they nearly didn’t enter me into GCSEs because of it. I had missed so much there were big gaps in my coursework and they said without it the boards wouldn’t let me enter the exam. Although Could have been bollocks to motivate me I suppose. But it’s hard to believe it’d just be a case of turn up and your exam papers are waiting for you.

It strikes me as untrue because she talks as though the school weren't supportive. I was also a massive school refuser (I remember one term my registrations were 2/112), but occasionally engaged, and did my coursework/revision, and was entered for all my GCSEs but one, and got 10 A-C and a D - AND, they still let me back for sixth form.. so it does happen, I'm just not sure it does with a school who she says behaved as it did.

Carryonmarion · 11/03/2022 11:31

I am glad to see that she is getting success and recognition and would go to the event if I lived nearer. No one is 100% right about everything, even clinical psychologists with years of experience. I know because I have worked with them for over 20 years. In the field of psychology it is important to engage in debate and listen to lots of opinions and voices, so long as those opinions are backed up by evidence. There are way few too people like Jessica with lived experience, as well as qualifications getting their voices heard in the field and influencing policy, in particular working class women who always need to shout twice as loud. I do approach her work from a critical perspective (as I would do the work of others in the field) but welcome diversity. Also I respect the fact that she has bypassed the toxic academic publishing route and made her research accessible and open to criticism from those who are not able to access research hidden behind an academic publisher's paywall.