Who is the most vulnerable to domestic abuse and violence? Women or trans women?

[rabbitwoman]

In the wake of SMP Robison's statements in Holyrod this week, I have seen so many people up and down twitter (and once in a real life conversation) that trans women are more vulnerable to domestic violence and abuse than women.

I am wondering exactly where this comes from and why it is said so confidently.

Does no one ever question it when they hear it? Just a very quick bit of mental maths shows me this is nonsense, knowing as I do dozens of women who have been victims of abuse and domestic violence, but I only know three trans women altogether.

How does this maths stack up, is it just an outright lie with no evidence or is there actual evidence and statistics to back it up? Because next time someone trots it out I would like to be able to rebuke it....

(although if it is true, surely that's a very concerning trend that we should be a lot more aware of?)

@Helleofabore

Has someone said yet: this is not a competition - fix services, educate boys and men (predominantly)?

Sure. Everyone knows this.

Not a competition though?

I don’t think it was women and girls, females, who made it a ‘competition’. It was males who have pushed to have access to the female single sex spaces needed for healing after suffering these attacks. That was a ‘competitive’ move not instigated by females.

And when told by women that they want these spaces for themselves, those women have been monstered and demonised and those males have doubled down as to their demands for access.

Those males did not stop and change tactic to secure the spaces needed for themselves and to leave the spaces women asked to remain single sex.

Saying ‘it is not a competition’ is yet another disingenuous attempt to shame women effectively.

Yes. Women have no need to pretend we’re getting hurt. Our injuries speak for themselves. But we must collude in the pretence that males have it worse.

allmywhat

This is what happens when someone only listens to the ‘right’ people. Their perception of what is acceptable behaviour becomes somewhat skewed.

They also is now part of the group that find words “literally” violent and misgendering to be hugely abusive.

The distortion of perception in a group that LP is fully immersed is key to their existence.

LP does not have CPTSD from reading some snarky book reviews

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-and-complex-ptsd/complex-ptsd/

I agree she has many psychological issues which she probably needs some form of therapy for, but complex PTSD is experienced after extreme trauma such as witnessing genocide, rape or abduction.

Distortion of perception eresh. It is fully immersive.

This person has a book published but thinks it's ok to write "alright"?

I'd say it shames mostly the Conservative party and their cuts to council and charity budgets. It isn't the Tories that have cut our funding.

Yes, our local LA has removed about 40% of its funding but that's because they have been couselled that as a single sex, female service we break the law, are not nice and should be punished - the first was explicitly said in a letter, the second two were tacit admissions over the phone.

So, I'd say uou are wrong Cathy!

Oh wow Laurie.

“By the way, I’m not going to post or link to them, but if you’re curious, check out the reviews of my book ‘Sexual Revolution’ in the Observer (!!), the Times and the Critic, for a start. As you can imagine, the unofficial harassment was uglier. Some of it from the same people.“

So Laurie is accusing the book reviewers, in addition to the reviews, of uglier, unofficial harassment? Which would be a crime?

There are people tweeting that Laurie Penny ‘shouldn’t stare’ at those 3 reviews.

LP really doesn’t see it though. They has been repeatedly told their approach is the righteous one. Like Catherina’s post of that cartoon. Catharina fully believes it is proportionate, it is warranted and it is righteous.

if Thanos snipped his glove and gender dysphoria disappeared and being trans was no longer a thing, the situation for cis women would not materially improve. Rapes are not prosecuted, domestic violence not taken seriously, shelters too full, there are too few (female) nurses and doctors trained to support abuse victims, too little financial support to allow DV/GBV victims to escape and rebuild their lives. That would not change if there weren't any trans people.

Sorry, just catching up!

Nope. Whlst I agree about the general lack of fundin, lack of desire to proscute and lack of female nurses avialable for DV victims, the bald fact remains: if transwomen stopped trying to enter female services we would be better off AND would feel more inclined towrads supporting new groups for them. As it is I lose money ebacuse we ahev been found wanting anfd then lose more by supporting male/ trans services in order to try and gain more of the lost funding back.

In case you didn't understand that, I pay a not inconsiderable amount of the money we raise to a male/trans service. I do this so that we can tick the "we also support men" box in the hope that we will get back some of the lost funding. It works out we gain about £5K a year! So we nmay stop because the paperwork is a nightmare.

Nobody wins! And that is the truth here at the coalface, where all of this isn't just surmise, agenda driven twaddle!

The statement that TW are 2x more likely to be victims of DV than W is made up.

Logic would say they are equally likely to be victims of DV as W because of other risk factors. E.g TW are likely to be in an intimate partner relationship with a man, TW are more likely to be sex workers, etc.

As for who is most vulnerable, TW that transition in adulthood would have advantage over W in how much abuse they can withstand without getting seriously injured or killed, so W would be more vulnerable. TW who had puberty blockers and never were adult men, should be equally vulnerable as a W for same reasons.

Statistics don’t really exist because TW are recorded as W or M when listed as a victim. There isn’t yet or hasn’t been in the past a trans box to tick when gathering crime statistics.

Have they said how many have been the perpetrators DV? And also what constitutes DV (so would a woman who refused to acknowledge her partner as a female be added to the stats as an abuser alongside a man who knocked seven bells out of his wife?)

There is a website by children of transitioners (who appear to be mostly children of transitioning fathers / transwomen). The children write of their experience, and love for both parents comes through - and yet all the accounts of domestic abuse on the website written by children in this situation is about their fathers / transwomen towards their mothers and children. There is not a single example of a mother being abusive.

childrenoftransitioners.org/

And misgendering (which lobby groups state is domestic abuse) is not an offence in these families surely? The supreme court in the Freddie M case (and GRA itself) confirmed a father is always a father to their children (and vice versa) - they don't get to change the way their children relate/ refer to them if they get a GRC. So surely trying to force your child or wife to refer to you as the opposite sex is part of a programme of coercive control and clearly abusive?

I don't think it's fair to say LP is bullying. They didn't @ the reviewers and it's ok to say you had a psychological reaction to a public panning

They-LP didn't @ them-reviewers but they-LP did lob multiple accusations from unprofessionalism to harassment at the reviewers, while naming specific reviews so they made it entirely explicit who they(LP) were talking about. LP also blamed the reviewers (can't remember if explicit or implicit) for their "CPTSD."

That absolutely is bullying; it's the extremely common tactic of bullying to play the victim. Since LP was explicit who they were talking about, they don't get any points for not @-ing them, in fact that makes it even worse because people are being accused of stuff behind their backs. It's repulsive.

Vulnerability to domestic abuse sky rockets when children are involved. Women with children find it harder to leave as they need more money, more space, more facilities, they can earn less, are more likely to be financially dependent if they have had children. Bullying, sadistic males know this.

This is why it is so frustrating to try and negotiate these lies - a survey like the one I linked to will be presented as a fait acomplait - noone will question, noone will scrutinise, they will repeat it as dact to the next person and the next person until everyone believes it.

So misgendering and dead naming count as domestic abuse, do they? If a woman went to the police saying her intimate partner was calling her a 'derogatory female insult', she would be laughed out of the station. Its not even a hate crime!!!

Yet all the protections are being thrown at trans women as women are being brutalised all over the world.

@Helleofabore

There are people tweeting that Laurie Penny ‘shouldn’t stare’ at those 3 reviews.

LP really doesn’t see it though. They has been repeatedly told their approach is the righteous one. Like Catherina’s post of that cartoon. Catharina fully believes it is proportionate, it is warranted and it is righteous.

Quite.

The cognitive dissonance is so extraordinary I wonder why none of LP's circle has pointed it out.

Omg that Twitter thread! Oh, poor me, I must take to my bed as if I am in a Victorian melodrama because people were so mean to me on Twitter. Seriously?

And all the while JK Rowling receives death threats, she is some how able to carry on with her supportive tweeting of women, world book day and giving money to charity. I wonder who we should admire most…?

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]LP does not have CPTSD from reading some snarky book reviews

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-and-complex-ptsd/complex-ptsd/[/quote]
It's very common for people online to have CPTSD. I don't know why.

OPTSD?

New phenomenon. Occurs when a social media maven is faced wth the real world encroaching upon the self caressing, ego bolstering, Me Cave they have s[pent years constructing. Usually consists of someone's opinion that does not 100% match that of said media maven.

WokeSpeak: see also Literal Violence (or any other SM phrase starting with Literal)

Sad, self obsessed, absolutely lacking in empathy or self reflective abilities.

JK Rowling writes about her experience of domestic violence in order to express her concerns about abusive men identifying as female. That = "weaponising her trauma".

Laurie Penny has a few negative book reviews = she now has "complex PTSD".

The victim mentality is extraordinary.

I mean, if you write utter bilge and someone decides to publish it then at least have the backbone to respond to the criticism of said bilge with some dignity.

Utterly fascinating.

I mean, if you write utter bilge and someone decides to publish it then at least have the backbone to respond to the criticism of said bilge with some dignity.

She even accuses the authors of the three negative reviews of having co-ordinated their reviews - as if they couldn't independently have come to the conclusion that her book was crap.

You have to admire that on some level. To have such a hide…

Spiked have reviewed Penny’s book foo. Brendan O’Neil didn’t like it, but I suspect didn’t meet up with Julie Bindel to coordinate.
“Penny – privately educated, time-rich, her labour unsold, her hands uncalloused, straight, married, etc etc – can magically reposition herself as a member of the downtrodden by announcing that she is genderqueer, a they/them, abused, terrorised, yada yada.”